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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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Fiverings
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Andy Murray - Tennis Legend

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4170 on: November 17, 2012, 04:11 PM »
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Since no human is capable of anything other than a human perception of reality, it is pointless trying to suggest anything else.

What a sterile intellectual universe you inhabit. With imagination we can perceive many, if not all realities. The "truth" of their existence is subject to our intellectual conventions, but no real progress in our understanding of the universe has been achieved by building on known facts. We must leap to new levels of understanding, and develop a new rationality to accommodate. The story of scientific endeavour is full of examples of this
[ Last edit by Fiverings November 17, 2012, 04:22 PM ] IP Logged
Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4171 on: November 17, 2012, 04:20 PM »
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You seriously believe this? Why?

Do you believe in life after death Dave? Have you ever seen a spirit or a ufo?
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4172 on: November 17, 2012, 04:23 PM »
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Fiverings..........See what I mean?

That we're too closed-minded to realise that we are capable of becoming incorporeal and passing through walls?

Yeah, I guess I'm a little skeptical.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4173 on: November 17, 2012, 04:26 PM »
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What a sterile intellectual universe you inhabit. With imagination we can perceive many, if not all realities. The "truth" of their existence is subject to our intellectual conventions, but no real progress in our understanding of the universe has been achieved by building on known facts.

I'm sorry, but what on earth are you going on about? That is precisely how progress is made.

Progress is not made by spouting nonsensical, baseless statements about the supernatural.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4174 on: November 17, 2012, 04:28 PM »
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Do you believe in life after death Dave? Have you ever seen a spirit or a ufo?

OK, let's have this conversation. If you're going to make bold claims about the survival of death, hopefully you can answer some simple questions.

Do you believe you have a soul?
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Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4175 on: November 17, 2012, 04:45 PM »
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Eh.......I wasn't asking you Clydey and no longer have 'any' interest in discussing 'anything' with anyone who is incapable of carrying on a discussion without resorting to inane, childish insults and name calling!  Got that?
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4176 on: November 17, 2012, 05:05 PM »
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What a sterile intellectual universe you inhabit.

I inhabit the same intellectual universe as you. As such, I try to understand that universe as best as I am able. So I am able to give you an explanation of ice melting which does not involve the ice "wanting" to melt. If you have spent some time wandering certain areas of this intellectual universe you will know that explanations that involve inanimate objects having awareness date back to Aristotle(384 BC – 322 BC as I'm sure you know) and were a dead end. Sterile. The modern idea, expressed through physics, has been a highly productive, fertile idea, as I'm sure you will agree.

Quote
no real progress in our understanding of the universe has been achieved by building on known facts.

ALL progress in our understanding has been achieved by building on known facts. I am glad that you value the imagination as highly as I do, though. We can let our minds soar through the stratosphere, with me perhaps occasionally tugging on your coat sleeves to suggest we fly a little closer to Earth.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4177 on: November 17, 2012, 05:23 PM »
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Do you believe in life after death Dave? Have you ever seen a spirit or a ufo?

No. No and yes - I have seen several unidentified flying objects. I didn't leap to the conclusion they were of alien origin though.

What does this have to do with being able to walk through walls?

The  beginning of "The Men Who Stare at Goats" which is a book about the US military embracing  psychic phenomena  (as part of the war machine), has a general who determinedly stares at a wall, convinced he can find the secret to walking through it. Of course, he knocks himself out trying to walk through to the next office.

I will let you judge if I have a truly closed mind once you know me a little better. A truly open mind is one that is open to accepting the limitations we have. It is only such open minds that have found ways to overcome some of these limitations.

Anyway, that wall. It's a challenge, for sure. Did you know that the wall is composed of mostly empty space? In fact, everything is mostly empty space. So why can't we walk through walls? It is because atoms have electrons going around them that repel each other, according to the electromagnetic force.

We never touch anything. Ever. What we feel as a touch is electromagnetic repulsion. The atoms of my fingers never come into contact with the keyboard.

So maybe someday humankind could find a way to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion of all those atoms in the wall and my atoms. Maybe some kind of machine. Or maybe we could just teleport to the other side of the wall. Teleportation is a fact. Only on the quantum level so far, but maybe one day we will be able to teleport large things like people. Who knows? Or maybe we could just walk through the door.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4178 on: November 17, 2012, 05:25 PM »
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- Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

- Imagination is more important than knowledge.

By the great Einstein
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4179 on: November 17, 2012, 05:32 PM »
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Emma Jean, what's with all these nonsensical quotes you keep putting in your signature about materialism?

I would love to see someone make a compelling case that consciousness is independent of the brain, given that everything that we currently know about conscious experience is connected to the brain.

The quote is actually from Dr. Eben Alexander, III, M.D., F.A.C.S. Below is his picture and his story:



Dr. Eben Alexander III has been an academic neurosurgeon for the last 25 years, including 15 years at the Brigham & Women's Hospital, the Children’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston.  Over those years he has personally dealt with hundreds of patients suffering from severe alterations in their level of consciousness. Many of those patients were rendered comatose by trauma, brain tumors, ruptured aneurysms, infections, or stroke. In his academic career he has authored or co-authored over 150 chapters and papers in peer reviewed journals, and made over 200 presentations at conferences and medical centers around the world. He thought he had a very good idea of how the brain generates consciousness, mind and spirit.

In the predawn hours of November 10, 2008, he was driven into coma by a rare and mysterious bacterial meningitis-encephalitis of unknown cause. He spent a week in coma on a ventilator, his prospects for survival diminishing rapidly. On the seventh day, to the surprise of everyone, he started to awaken. Memories of his life had been completely deleted inside of the coma, yet he awoke with memories of a fantastic odyssey deep into another realm – more real than this earthly one. His older son advised him to write down everything he could remember about his journey, before he read anything about near-death experiences, physics or cosmology. Six weeks later, he completed his initial recording of his remarkable journey, totaling over 20,000 words in length. Then he started reading, and was astonished by the insights his journey brought to the world’s literature on near-death experiences, and to all phenomena of extended consciousness. His experience clearly revealed that we are conscious in spite of our brain – that, in fact, consciousness is at the root of all existence.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4180 on: November 17, 2012, 05:35 PM »
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Well, that started off well and then became rather idiotic.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4181 on: November 17, 2012, 05:39 PM »
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Here's an interview with Dr. Amit Goswami in which he talks about physics and consciousness but first a bit about his background as well.

"Amit Goswami, Ph. D. is a retired professor from the theoretical physics department of the University of Oregon in Eugene, where he had served since 1968. He is a "pioneer of the new paradigm of science called “science within consciousness”.

Goswami is the author of the highly successful textbook Quantum Mechanics that is used in Universities throughout the world. His two volume textbook for nonscientists, The Physicist’s View of Nature traces the decline and rediscovery of the concept of God within science.

Goswami has also written many popular books based on his research on quantum physics and consciousness. In his seminal book, The Self-Aware Universe, he solved the quantum measurement problem elucidating the famous observer effect while paving the path to a new paradigm of science based on the primacy of consciousness."



Another one with a bit more information followed by Q&A.



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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4182 on: November 17, 2012, 05:47 PM »
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What a sterile intellectual universe you inhabit. With imagination we can perceive many, if not all realities. The "truth" of their existence is subject to our intellectual conventions, but no real progress in our understanding of the universe has been achieved by building on known facts. We must leap to new levels of understanding, and develop a new rationality to accommodate. The story of scientific endeavour is full of examples of this

Isn't that the truth. Very sad indeed. Anyway, the new paradigm of science is already here and it will replace the old science where materialism tends to be the hard core in the mainstream science. It's been that way since 1950s but Quantum physics is going to change it all if it isn't already. We definitely need something that will answer all the questions rather than just being selective and Quantum Physics is now coming up with a model that explains almost everything and will give that necessary shift that we need so that we can move to the right direction.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4183 on: November 17, 2012, 05:52 PM »
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Hey, you too? hug
Didn't seem so with your name...
Converted or what?

Converted to what? lololol. I take any name I like since I don't like to be labeled.

So two Muslims girls are into Andy, eh?  shocking w00t

Mark hates Muslims so I am not sure how pleased he will be after this given that he's the forum owner. lolol
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Sabine
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^_^

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4184 on: November 17, 2012, 06:07 PM »
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I had a feelin' Mark didn't really like muslims by his posts before...now you confirmed it.

Look, I am against the brutal ways the attack and their methods and stuff, no matter what I am a muslim and am proud to be one.
I hate the way muslims are portrayed by others and their disgusting comments of the way they classify us. Mostly, I ignore them but sometimes, can't help taking notice of it.
Almost all people believe that Muslim=Terrorist.
That is a really pathetic thought.
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