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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4185 on: November 17, 2012, 06:08 PM »
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His experience clearly revealed that we are conscious in spite of our brain – that, in fact, consciousness is at the root of all existence.

If it had clearly revealed such a thing, he would be the most famous person on Earth by now.
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Sabine
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^_^

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4186 on: November 17, 2012, 06:09 PM »
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Mark hates Muslims so I am not sure how pleased he will be after this given that he's the forum owner. lolol

WHAT??? OMG!!!!!!!
I never knew Mark was the forum owner!! Just thought he was a regular member who has posted quite a lot :P. I just researched right now and read a bit of the forum's history and found out. Oh God, silly me...

Now, I have a certain respect for Mark  w00t
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4187 on: November 17, 2012, 06:15 PM »
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Here's an interview with Dr. Amit Goswami in which he talks about physics and consciousness but first a bit about his background as well.

"Amit Goswami, Ph. D. is a retired professor from the theoretical physics department of the University of Oregon in Eugene, where he had served since 1968. He is a "pioneer of the new paradigm of science called “science within consciousness”.

Rather than youtube videos, can you point to the peer reviewed scientific papers of Goswami that demonstrate the link between physics and consciousness. I'm sure you are aware that there are many physicists who disagree with the notion that quantum mechanics is a haven of consciousness, so perhaps if I could see some proper science please?
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4188 on: November 17, 2012, 06:42 PM »
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I inhabit the same intellectual universe as you. As such, I try to understand that universe as best as I am able. So I am able to give you an explanation of ice melting which does not involve the ice "wanting" to melt. If you have spent some time wandering certain areas of this intellectual universe you will know that explanations that involve inanimate objects having awareness date back to Aristotle(384 BC – 322 BC as I'm sure you know) and were a dead end. Sterile. The modern idea, expressed through physics, has been a highly productive, fertile idea, as I'm sure you will agree.

ALL progress in our understanding has been achieved by building on known facts. I am glad that you value the imagination as highly as I do, though. We can let our minds soar through the stratosphere, with me perhaps occasionally tugging on your coat sleeves to suggest we fly a little closer to Earth.
   You very clearly do not live in the same intellectual universe as I do. My mind is open to possibilities to which yours appears firmly closed.  I do not claim to understand the true nature of consciousness - it may well be something beyond beyond human reason, but in exploring the nature of ideas I gain new perspectives on existence. The most sceptical of scientists would  be reluctant to claim anything to be impossible - at best they would argue something was highly unlikely. Just because something has never been observed to happen is no absolute guarantee that it won't. That's a well established philosophical position.                                               
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4189 on: November 17, 2012, 06:44 PM »
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I had a feelin' Mark didn't really like muslims by his posts before...now you confirmed it.

Look, I am against the brutal ways the attack and their methods and stuff, no matter what I am a muslim and am proud to be one.
I hate the way muslims are portrayed by others and their disgusting comments of the way they classify us. Mostly, I ignore them but sometimes, can't help taking notice of it.
Almost all people believe that Muslim=Terrorist.
That is a really pathetic thought.
Terrorism is not particularly high up the list for the reasons I dislike your religion. There are far better reasons that don't involve stereotypes like that.

But for what it's worth, Emma is wrong in saying I hate Muslims but it's true that I certainly don't like Islam.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4190 on: November 17, 2012, 06:54 PM »
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My mind is open to possibilities to which yours appears firmly closed.

I apologise. Let's explore your idea that ice is aware. Could you tell me whether it has free will?


Quote
in exploring the nature of ideas I gain new perspectives on existence.

You are to be commended. And what new perspective have you gained from exploring the consciousness of ice? I must admit it has given me a new idea for a play.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4191 on: November 17, 2012, 07:39 PM »
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Eh.......I wasn't asking you Clydey and no longer have 'any' interest in discussing 'anything' with anyone who is incapable of carrying on a discussion without resorting to inane, childish insults and name calling!  Got that?

Where did I resort to childish insults?
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4192 on: November 17, 2012, 07:44 PM »
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The quote is actually from Dr. Eben Alexander, III, M.D., F.A.C.S. Below is his picture and his story:



Dr. Eben Alexander III has been an academic neurosurgeon for the last 25 years, including 15 years at the Brigham & Women's Hospital, the Children’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston.  Over those years he has personally dealt with hundreds of patients suffering from severe alterations in their level of consciousness. Many of those patients were rendered comatose by trauma, brain tumors, ruptured aneurysms, infections, or stroke. In his academic career he has authored or co-authored over 150 chapters and papers in peer reviewed journals, and made over 200 presentations at conferences and medical centers around the world. He thought he had a very good idea of how the brain generates consciousness, mind and spirit.

In the predawn hours of November 10, 2008, he was driven into coma by a rare and mysterious bacterial meningitis-encephalitis of unknown cause. He spent a week in coma on a ventilator, his prospects for survival diminishing rapidly. On the seventh day, to the surprise of everyone, he started to awaken. Memories of his life had been completely deleted inside of the coma, yet he awoke with memories of a fantastic odyssey deep into another realm – more real than this earthly one. His older son advised him to write down everything he could remember about his journey, before he read anything about near-death experiences, physics or cosmology. Six weeks later, he completed his initial recording of his remarkable journey, totaling over 20,000 words in length. Then he started reading, and was astonished by the insights his journey brought to the world’s literature on near-death experiences, and to all phenomena of extended consciousness. His experience clearly revealed that we are conscious in spite of our brain – that, in fact, consciousness is at the root of all existence.

I know who he is. Sam Harris has been writing about him recently, debunking his NDE.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4193 on: November 17, 2012, 07:49 PM »
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I apologise. Let's explore your idea that ice is aware. Could you tell me whether it has free will?


You are to be commended. And what new perspective have you gained from exploring the consciousness of ice? I must admit it has given me a new idea for a play.

   Ah the old free will number! - given that water is one of the few substances on earth than co-exists simultaneously in three phases solid/liquid/vapour who's to say it doesn't? But seriously, no, I'll concede no free will as I presume you to define it. Looking forward to seeing that play in print - remember me when the royalties roll in!!
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4194 on: November 17, 2012, 07:51 PM »
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Isn't that the truth. Very sad indeed. Anyway, the new paradigm of science is already here and it will replace the old science where materialism tends to be the hard core in the mainstream science. It's been that way since 1950s but Quantum physics is going to change it all if it isn't already. We definitely need something that will answer all the questions rather than just being selective and Quantum Physics is now coming up with a model that explains almost everything and will give that necessary shift that we need so that we can move to the right direction.

You seem to be under the impression that quantum theory opens the door to the supernatural. You're like Deepak Chopra, using the language of science to lend legitimacy to baseless claims.
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4195 on: November 17, 2012, 07:54 PM »
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If it had clearly revealed such a thing, he would be the most famous person on Earth by now.
  You mean like Christ, Mohammed, Buddha are?
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4196 on: November 17, 2012, 07:56 PM »
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   Ah the old free will number! - given that water is one of the few substances on earth than co-exists simultaneously in three phases solid/liquid/vapour who's to say it doesn't? But seriously, no, I'll concede no free will as I presume you to define it. Looking forward to seeing that play in print - remember me when the royalties roll in!!

And how do you define it? In an attempt to make it compatible with determinism, people have seemingly changed the concept of free will beyond all recognition.
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MT
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4197 on: November 17, 2012, 07:57 PM »
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I was at a funeral today in a Scottish church. The deceased was a family friend who died of  brain tumour aged 58, He was a kind gentle man and a wonderful fiddle player and the church was packed . The music was fantastic everyone clapped and sang and the minister was wonderful. There was so much love in the church it was easy to think God was there.   Think  Is that so wrong Clydey?
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4198 on: November 17, 2012, 07:57 PM »
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You seem to be under the impression that quantum theory opens the door to the supernatural. You're like Deepak Chopra, using the language of science to lend legitimacy to baseless claims.
If you regard the supernatural as something beyond our current capacity to explain - I guess thats valid.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4199 on: November 17, 2012, 07:58 PM »
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  You mean like Christ, Mohammed, Buddha are?

NDEs are clearly the bedrock of their fame.
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