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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (47.9%)
No (atheist) - 29 (39.7%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 9 (12.3%)
Total Voters: 72

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Author Topic: Religious Discussions  (Read 62528 times)
DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4200 on: November 17, 2012, 08:01 PM »
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Quote from: Fiverings on November 17, 2012, 07:49 PM
I'll concede no free will as I presume you to define it.

Okay. Can ice make choices?
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4201 on: November 17, 2012, 08:01 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 17, 2012, 07:56 PM
And how do you define it? In an attempt to make it compatible with determinism, people have seemingly changed the concept of free will beyond all recognition.
 Having the ability to choose between a number of states of being I guess - understanding outcomes and consequences - weighing options, taking actions knowing there will be seen and unforeseen consequences....   I do not subscribe to determinism, although i can see its allure to some extent. Its a sterile philosophy.
[ Last edit by Fiverings November 17, 2012, 08:09 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4202 on: November 17, 2012, 08:02 PM »
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Quote from: ZARFEEN15 on November 17, 2012, 06:09 PM
WHAT??? OMG!!!!!!!
I never knew Mark was the forum owner!! Just thought he was a regular member who has posted quite a lot :P. I just researched right now and read a bit of the forum's history and found out. Oh God, silly me...

Now, I have a certain respect for Mark  w00t

Oh Zarfeen...lol, you have no reason to show Mark more respect than you already show just because he's the forum owner. Mind you, ignorance is a bliss. :p
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4203 on: November 17, 2012, 08:05 PM »
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Quote from: Mark on November 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Terrorism is not particularly high up the list for the reasons I dislike your religion. There are far better reasons that don't involve stereotypes like that.

But for what it's worth, Emma is wrong in saying I hate Muslims but it's true that I certainly don't like Islam.

I was wrong, Zarfeen. Mark does like selective Muslim women (am not one of them Frown) and sometimes, he even gives them hugs!  shocking
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4204 on: November 17, 2012, 08:06 PM »
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Quote from: Fiverings on November 17, 2012, 07:54 PM
  You mean like Christ, Mohammed, Buddha are?

Yes. They are examples of famous people. Hitler and the Yorkshire Ripper are also famous people.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4205 on: November 17, 2012, 08:06 PM »
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Quote from: MT on November 17, 2012, 07:57 PM
I was at a funeral today in a Scottish church. The deceased was a family friend who died of  brain tumour aged 58, He was a kind gentle man and a wonderful fiddle player and the church was packed . The music was fantastic everyone clapped and sang and the minister was wonderful. There was so much love in the church it was easy to think God was there.   Think  Is that so wrong Clydey?

No, it's not wrong. I don't recall suggesting that theism is inherently wrong in any moral sense.

I'm attacking certain ideas, not necessarily the people who hold them. Just because I don't believe in god, it doesn't mean that I think believers are bad or that they don't have the right to those beliefs.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4206 on: November 17, 2012, 08:09 PM »
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Quote from: Fiverings on November 17, 2012, 08:01 PM
  Having the ability to choose between a number of states of being I guess - understanding outcomes and consequences - weighing options, taking actions knowing there will be seen and unforeseen consequences....

Every choice you make is a consequence of things that you had no control over, though.

There is not a single choice or action you can take that would undermine determinism.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4207 on: November 17, 2012, 08:09 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 17, 2012, 07:51 PM
You seem to be under the impression that quantum theory opens the door to the supernatural. You're like Deepak Chopra, using the language of science to lend legitimacy to baseless claims.

As long as you have the knowledge to understand that there are no such things as the "supernatural". These are only unexplained events that mainstream science can't solve and tend to ignore. You can't deny an experience if you don't have the ability to explain it. It's as simple as that.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4208 on: November 17, 2012, 08:12 PM »
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Quote from: Emma Jean on November 17, 2012, 08:05 PM
I was wrong, Zarfeen. Mark does like selective Muslim women (am not one of them Frown) and sometimes, he even gives them hugs!  shocking
My heart goes out to all Muslim women who have been indoctrinated into their religion due to their upbringing and surroundings.

And I fear for the mental health of Muslim women who have made a conscious decision to convert in adulthood.
[ Last edit by Mark November 17, 2012, 08:15 PM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4209 on: November 17, 2012, 08:13 PM »
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Quote from: Emma Jean on November 17, 2012, 08:09 PM
As long as you have the knowledge to understand that there are no such things as the "supernatural". These are only unexplained events that mainstream science can't solve and tend to ignore. You can't deny an experience if you don't have the ability to explain it. It's as simple as that.

I don't deny subjective experiences, but I do deny the explanations for certain experiences.
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4210 on: November 17, 2012, 08:16 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 17, 2012, 08:09 PM
Every choice you make is a consequence of things that you had no control over, though.

  Thats not an argument for determinism - its an argument for random outcomes
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4211 on: November 17, 2012, 08:17 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 17, 2012, 07:44 PM
I know who he is. Sam Harris has been writing about him recently, debunking his NDE.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death

Sam Harris is debunking a neurosurgeon's experience where his whole memory was wiped out by this rare disease ( and the chances of his survival was less than 2% let alone experience anything else) and was in deep coma for 7 days and yet he experienced something his rational mind and 25 years long practice in this field couldn't explain any other way? What an intellectual fool as Einstein would say but that again, that's not surprising given that he's a materialist.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean November 17, 2012, 08:21 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4212 on: November 17, 2012, 08:21 PM »
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Quote from: Mark on November 17, 2012, 08:12 PM
My heart goes out to all Muslim women who have been indoctrinated into their religion due to their upbringing and surroundings.

And I fear for the mental health of Muslim women who have made a conscious decision to convert in adulthood.

There are quite a few things going in the world but in the end, justice will prevail.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4213 on: November 17, 2012, 08:21 PM »
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Quote from: Emma Jean on November 17, 2012, 08:17 PM
Sam Harris is debunking a neurosurgeon's experience where his whole memory was wiped out by this rare disease ( and the chances of his survival was less than 2% let along experience anything) and was in deep coma for 7 days and yet he experienced something his rational mind and 25 years long practice in this field couldn't explain any other way? What an intellectual fool as Einstein would say but that again, that's not surprising given that he's a materialist.

What we have here is a combination of an ad hominem attack and an argument from incredulity.

Do you actually have any response to Sam's points? First of all, 2% means that a small number recover. I'm not sure what that has to do with his NDE, though.

Secondly, if his brain was dead, how did he remember the experience? We know that memory is tied to the brain.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4214 on: November 17, 2012, 08:23 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 17, 2012, 08:21 PM
Secondly, if his brain was dead, how did he remember the experience? We know that memory is tied to the brain.
Because... because... QUANTUM THEORY!
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