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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4230 on: November 17, 2012, 08:58 PM »
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And you clearly didn't 't bother to see Dr. Amit Gowsami's clip that I'd posted earlier on. If you say you know more than a physicist who spent his whole life researching this field and his text books are followed in Universities, then I rest my case right here.

There are countless physicists who disagree with him, too. That isn't how this works. Arguments from authority are lame, and even more so when higher, more well respected authorities contradict you.

Peter Duesberg was a highly respected molecular biologist, yet he is also an AIDS denialist.

My point? People can be wrong, no matter how well trained they are.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4231 on: November 17, 2012, 09:01 PM »
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My heart goes out to all Muslim women who have been indoctrinated into their religion due to their upbringing and surroundings.

And I fear for the mental health of Muslim women who have made a conscious decision to convert in adulthood.

This is what I just heard:

"I am a white man who can make decisions for women better than women can."

Shut the **** up, Mark.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4232 on: November 17, 2012, 09:04 PM »
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No, he wasn't brain dead for seven days. What utter boll**ks. It isn't possible to be brain dead and come back to life, let alone after a week.

Could you quote where he says that he was brain dead? He was in a coma, but his brain was not dead.

And again, who cares about his chances of survival? That has no relevance to the NDE.

He had no brain activity because this disease had wiped out ALL his memories which caused him deep coma state. When there are no activities in the brain, it is thought to be dead. And If he were to survive, he would have needed to start on a clean slate, like a new born baby but he didn't. When he came back, the only thing he remembered was the experience he had in this coma state. All other memories came back later. In fact, there are now many cases, where after all these near death experience patients, were able to beat all the odds like stage 4 cancer and not only that, the cancer, tumors all disappeared within literally days. Medical science has yet to give any explanation. These are all facts.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean November 17, 2012, 09:10 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4233 on: November 17, 2012, 09:09 PM »
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There are countless physicists who disagree with him, too. That isn't how this works. Arguments from authority are lame, and even more so when higher, more well respected authorities contradict you.

Peter Duesberg was a highly respected molecular biologist, yet he is also an AIDS denialist.

My point? People can be wrong, no matter how well trained they are.

'Can be' is the key word which means there's a very good chance he can be right too. And if you listen to him, you will see, he's trying to make a very good point in each case. He was a materialist for a long time after all but his curiosity and his ongoing research has helped him to come to this conclusion. There are other physicists who support his work. He's not alone in this. Besides, he's already verified some of this work.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4234 on: November 17, 2012, 09:09 PM »
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Quote from: Emma Jean
- Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

- Imagination is more important than knowledge.

By the great Einstein


Quote from: Emma Jean
paving the path to a new paradigm of science


 the new paradigm of science is already here


Quote from: Emma Jean
Sorry but the world we live in doesn't work that way. It will take time and perhaps a few centuries to understand all this. He and a few others are just way ahead of their time


Quote from: Emma Jean
This is the reason why I quote this Einstein quote time and again

Quote from: Emma Jean
What an intellectual fool as Einstein would say



5 points for each mention of "Einstein", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".


10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a "paradigm shift".

40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.

50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions.


http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html



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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4235 on: November 17, 2012, 09:10 PM »
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Fiverings - Can ice make choices?
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4236 on: November 17, 2012, 09:13 PM »
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You clearly don't get it.

Even if chance was part of the process, what control do you have over chance? You are not in control of randomness. Therefore, you still don't have free will.
  Alright - obviously I have no control over chance - it still doesn't  follow that my actions are constrained in a deterministic fashion, thare will always be several, perhaps many actions, I might take as a result of a set of circumstances, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can prove that there is only one possible outcome from the simplest scenario. Therefore determinism is a false proposition.
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4237 on: November 17, 2012, 09:15 PM »
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Fiverings - Can ice make choices?
  I was going to ignore that post, but since you insist, don't be daft.  Chocices, maybe.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4238 on: November 17, 2012, 09:17 PM »
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  I was going to ignore that post, but since you insist, don't be daft.  Chocices, maybe.

What a sterile intellectual universe you live in! For your closed mindedness, there is a more open minded person who believes that ice can make choices.

Quote
don't be daft
What is the difference between your claim that ice is conscious and the claim that ice can make choices?
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Fiverings
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4239 on: November 17, 2012, 09:23 PM »
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 What are you drinking, Dave? When you start arguing with yourself its time to go to bed,
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4240 on: November 17, 2012, 09:41 PM »
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He was never an atheist.
Give me strength.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4241 on: November 17, 2012, 09:41 PM »
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He had no brain activity because this disease had wiped out ALL his memories which caused him deep coma state. When there are no activities in the brain, it is thought to be dead. And If he were to survive, he would have needed to start on a clean slate, like a new born baby but he didn't. When he came back, the only thing he remembered was the experience he had in this coma state. All other memories came back later. In fact, there are now many cases, where after all these near death experience patients, were able to beat all the odds like stage 4 cancer and not only that, the cancer, tumors all disappeared within literally days. Medical science has yet to give any explanation. These are all facts.

Again, he was not brain dead. And his memory was not wiped clean, given that they came back to him later.

So now you're saying there's a connection between NDEs and the patient's cancer going into remission?
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4242 on: November 17, 2012, 09:42 PM »
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'Can be' is the key word which means there's a very good chance he can be right too. And if you listen to him, you will see, he's trying to make a very good point in each case. He was a materialist for a long time after all but his curiosity and his ongoing research has helped him to come to this conclusion. There are other physicists who support his work. He's not alone in this. Besides, he's already verified some of this work.

It doesn't mean there is a very good chance that he's right, particularly when he is in the minority.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4243 on: November 17, 2012, 09:45 PM »
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  Alright - obviously I have no control over chance - it still doesn't  follow that my actions are constrained in a deterministic fashion, thare will always be several, perhaps many actions, I might take as a result of a set of circumstances, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can prove that there is only one possible outcome from the simplest scenario. Therefore determinism is a false proposition.

Whether there is one possible outcome is irrelevant. You still have no control. There isn't a single thing you can do that would be incompatible with determinism.

If you have no control, you have no free will. You have to prove that your will takes control at some point in the chain of events that lead to any given decision.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4244 on: November 17, 2012, 09:52 PM »
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What are you drinking, Dave? When you start arguing with yourself its time to go to bed,

Possible I'm arguing with you but it's going under your head. There's another possibility too.

Anyway, what is the difference between your belief that ice is conscious and the belief that ice can make choices? You seem to think one is daft. How do you make the distinction?
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