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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.1%)
No (atheist) - 31 (40.8%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.2%)
Total Voters: 75

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Religious Discussions

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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4275 on: November 18, 2012, 05:49 PM »
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No, that's not what I am saying. That's what you are saying. I am saying there's a vast difference between an oncologist who has just graduated and the one who not only has the knowledge, but also, has the experience of practicing in real life. That's why people want to go to experienced doctors as opposed to the ones who have just graduated. This is the difference between a pilot who has already flown many times than a pilot who has just learned how to fly. Therefore, there's a vast difference between an experienced pilot and a novice one. You should have been able to grasp this a long time ago, frankly.

Sorry, but no. You were quite clear about people having to experience something before they comment on it. You said that Sam Harris hadn't contracted bacterial meningitis, so he was not qualified to give his views.

You're being remarkably disingenuous by trying to worm your way out of this.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4276 on: November 18, 2012, 05:52 PM »
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Because he was in the ER under a formed medical experts who were monitoring his brain condition every day which showed no activity for 7 days. His brain condition was irreversible in medical terms. He was told about his brain condition once he woke up; that's how he knew.

You see, it's not like he was looking after himself at home.  Rolling Eyes

That just isn't true. He was not brain dead.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4277 on: November 18, 2012, 05:55 PM »
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In quantum physics, everything is a possibility first and only takes a form or shape in the objective universe once you look at it; as in, when the observer looks at it, it then takes a form of actuality. This was the missing link for a long time until Heisenberg came along and established it. Consciousness is a non local entity outside time and space that uses non signal communication as opposed to material world/universe, where everything uses signal and everything is connected. Consciousness, on the other hand, is no where to be found because of its invisible non local nature and yet it is everything there is including ice; hence ice has consciousness and can make choices as the ice is not its true self but only a manifestation of the consciousness' self.

It's a very hard concept to follow for materialists I get that.

Again, you are simply lying. You are stating this as though it's a fact, completely misrepresenting quantum theory.

Not only is it not a fact, but it's a minority view within the scientific community. Deepak Chopra spouts this rubbish and he is a laughing stock. Watch his debate with Sam Harris, where he gets humiliated.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4278 on: November 18, 2012, 06:06 PM »
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That just isn't true. He was not brain dead.

EVEN IF it were miraculously true, there would be this question:

How does he know his experiences took place during the time there was no discernible brain function?
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4279 on: November 18, 2012, 06:16 PM »
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Sorry, but no. You were quite clear about people having to experience something before they comment on it. You said that Sam Harris hadn't contracted bacterial meningitis, so he was not qualified to give his views.

You're being remarkably disingenuous by trying to worm your way out of this.

No, it's you who's going constantly to the other direction.

Eben Alexander is a neurosurgeon himself with a massive amount of experience dealing with his day to day patients in this field. Sam Harris is a neuroscientist so they both basically come from the same field, but Dr. Alexander is with the disease and the experience here and not Sam Harris; therefore, Dr. Alexander's take on his own experience is far more valid than Sam Harris. Sam Harris is the novice here in this sense.

I am not going to argue on any of this matters with you because it's absolutely pointless just like Aileen and a few others have already mentioned. Truth has the tendency to come and it will one day.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4280 on: November 18, 2012, 06:16 PM »
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That just isn't true. He was not brain dead.

Right. If you say so. Rolling Eyes
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4281 on: November 18, 2012, 06:16 PM »
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EVEN IF it were miraculously true, there would be this question:

How does he know his experiences took place during the time there was no discernible brain function?

Precisely. No one could know exactly when they took place.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4282 on: November 18, 2012, 06:19 PM »
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No, it's you who's going constantly to the other direction.

Eben Alexander is a neurosurgeon himself with a massive amount of experience dealing with his day to day patients in this field. Sam Harris is a neuroscientist so they both basically come from the same field, but Dr. Alexander is with the disease and the experience here and not Sam Harris; therefore, Dr. Alexander's take on his own experience is far more valid than Sam Harris. Sam Harris is the novice here in this sense.

I am not going to argue on any of this matters with you because it's absolutely pointless just like Aileen and a few others have already mentioned. Truth has the tendency to come and it will one day.

That wasn't what you argued. Here, I'll quote you.

Quote
Sam Harris didn't suffer from a rare acute bacterial meningitis that nearly killed him. He also didn't have an extraordinary experience while he was in deep coma. Experience is everything in life.

Like I said, you are being remarkably disingenuous.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4283 on: November 18, 2012, 06:19 PM »
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Again, you are simply lying. You are stating this as though it's a fact, completely misrepresenting quantum theory.

Not only is it not a fact, but it's a minority view within the scientific community. Deepak Chopra spouts this rubbish and he is a laughing stock. Watch his debate with Sam Harris, where he gets humiliated.

I am not lying because these aren't my take on these things. These are from the very physicists (Dr. Gowsami and Dr. Alan Wolf and a few others) I've posted earlier on. If you had seen, it you'd have known about it too. If you have problems with it, then go and study about it and then present your doubt/problems to them. I am just a messenger here.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4284 on: November 18, 2012, 06:21 PM »
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Right. If you say so. Rolling Eyes

Link me to somewhere that says he was brain dead for a week. Can't really trust your biased perspective, so show me something that backs up what you're saying.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4285 on: November 18, 2012, 06:22 PM »
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I am not lying because these aren't my take on these things. These are from the very physicists (Dr. Gowsami and Dr. Alan Wolf and a few others) I've posted earlier on. If you had seen, it you'd have known about it too. If you have problems with it, then go and study about it and then present your doubt/problems to them. I am just a messenger here.

I don't need to express my doubts to them. There is an army of rational scientists who have already objected to the notion that consciousness is non-local.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4286 on: November 18, 2012, 06:23 PM »
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EVEN IF it were miraculously true, there would be this question:

How does he know his experiences took place during the time there was no discernible brain function?

Because once he woke up, that's was the only thing he remembered. He couldn't recognize anyone (his family or relatives) for a few hours/days etc. He also couldn't remember anything from his life before the coma. It's so clear to me that you didn't even bother to listen to what he had to say about his own experience. lol
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4287 on: November 18, 2012, 06:25 PM »
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I don't need to express my doubts to them. There is an army of rational scientists who have already objected to the notion that consciousness is non-local.

Oh, we have changed our tune now then since I pointed out that the information didn't come from Deepak Chopra but renown physicists like Dr. Gowsami and Dr. Wolf. Very nice.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4288 on: November 18, 2012, 06:26 PM »
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Link me to somewhere that says he was brain dead for a week. Can't really trust your biased perspective, so show me something that backs up what you're saying.

It's all there in the book review, clip (all posted so far) and in his book. I even highlighted for you.

Anyway, that's it for me.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4289 on: November 18, 2012, 06:26 PM »
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Because once he woke up, that's was the only thing he remembered. He couldn't recognize anyone (his family or relatives) for a few hours/days etc. He also couldn't remember anything from his life before the coma. It's so clear to me that you didn't even bother to listen to what he had to say about his own experience. lol

Why does that prove anything? Remembering an experience that occurred after the cessation of brain activity is the LEAST likely explanation.
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