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Sociology Thread

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Buhweet
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #270 on: June 13, 2010, 10:25 PM »
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Thanks for the clarification.  I personally think they are all geniuses but it is of no importance to me how they are classified. 

One of my personal criteria is to classify them according to their contribution to society.  For example, in my own eyes, Thomas Edison with his invention of electricity which has hugely benefited mankind is a genius.  Ford with his invention of the motor car is another genius.   

Michelangelo is one of the great geniuses as he had fantastic ideas that came before their time,  i.e. some of his inventions could not be built because the building block technologies were not yet available.
A couple of clarifications on your arguement which probably will aid Clydey's position. Edison had over 100 chemists, engineers, and scientists under contract working under paltry conditions, paid nearly nothing and received no credit for what they individually discovered. He used Ford's assembly line idea for producing inventions.
Ford did not invent the motor car. He refined the assembly line process, which reduced workers to mere, fleshy machines, capable of doing one or two simple tasks as quickly as possible. Again, they were paid, at the height of his success, about 1$ a day, lived under horrendous conditions in ghetto's build by Ford and they also received no credit for any imporvments in the assembly line process which they undoubtlably contributed.
And finally I think you mean Leonardo, was the inventor whose works had to wait for modern science to catch up. Michelangelo, I think, was primarily a sculptur and painter, though I think he did do some military engineering under duress from the Pope.
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Philip
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #271 on: June 13, 2010, 10:56 PM »
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Interesting new information you have provided there.  Thanks.  Yes I meant Leonardo.
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Aileen
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #272 on: June 14, 2010, 05:05 AM »
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How can there be no such thing as "singular genius"?  If you take "singular" as meaning "unique", then, as each and every idividual one of us unique, even identical twins, surely genius also is unique and therefore singular?

Certainly artistic, musical, mathematical, scientific or inventiveness genius is passed on genetically, sometimes skipping one or more generations, and have themes and ideas which can be temporarily borrowed, as opposed to plagiarised, and then worked upon and developed, but surely the end result is also down to the unique, and therefore singular, perception and interpretation of the individual, since no two people will preceive or interpret in the same way?

Also, whilst I absolutely cannot bring myself to describe Tracey Enim as a genius, I take it that, by your comment that she couldn't possibly have produced "The Bed" had she been born and bred in Africa and not Britain, that you consider that the obvious - a person's ethnicity - is also a factor in determining how far they will be able or allowed to develop their talents or skills within the social, religious and political constraints of the society in which they live.

 
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Clydey
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #273 on: June 14, 2010, 06:20 AM »
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How can there be no such thing as "singular genius"?  If you take "singular" as meaning "unique", then, as each and every idividual one of us unique, even identical twins, surely genius also is unique and therefore singular?

Because we rely on others. Nothing is done in isolation. Einstein could not have come up with his ideas if not for the work of scientists that came before him. Therefore, his ideas are not simply the product of his genius.

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Certainly artistic, musical, mathematical, scientific or inventiveness genius is passed on genetically, sometimes skipping one or more generations, and have themes and ideas which can be temporarily borrowed, as opposed to plagiarised, and then worked upon and developed, but surely the end result is also down to the unique, and therefore singular, perception and interpretation of the individual, since no two people will preceive or interpret in the same way?

It is not just passed on genetically. Creative works do not just happen in isolation. They are inspired by the works of others. That doesn't even take into account the people who are involved in the physical production of our work. Look at the section I wrote on Martin Scorsese and you'll see what I mean.

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Also, whilst I absolutely cannot bring myself to describe Tracey Enim as a genius, I take it that, by your comment that she couldn't possibly have produced "The Bed" had she been born and bred in Africa and not Britain, that you consider that the obvious - a person's ethnicity - is also a factor in determining how far they will be able or allowed to develop their talents or skills within the social, religious and political constraints of the society in which they live.

The point I was making is that her environment and her experiences led to her coming up with that idea. The chances of her coming up with that idea in a different environment, with different experiences, are tiny.
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #274 on: June 14, 2010, 05:15 PM »
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How can there be no such thing as "singular genius"?  If you take "singular" as meaning "unique", then, as each and every idividual one of us unique, even identical twins, surely genius also is unique and therefore singular?

That was the theme of the programme on Geniuses on Channel 4. All the contributions of their Geniuses were not only described as unique but heralded as being so unique that science would never have advanced without them, for instance, in the case of Turing and computers, without his genius, they would never have been invented.
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Clydey
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #275 on: June 14, 2010, 05:29 PM »
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That was the theme of the programme on Geniuses on Channel 4. All the contributions of their Geniuses were not only described as unique but heralded as being so unique that science would never have advanced without them, for instance, in the case of Turing and computers, without his genius, they would never have been invented.


And computers couldn't have been invented without the existence of other technology. Do you think we were banging rocks together to create fire when computers were invented?
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Buhweet
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #276 on: June 14, 2010, 05:45 PM »
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That was the theme of the programme on Geniuses on Channel 4. All the contributions of their Geniuses were not only described as unique but heralded as being so unique that science would never have advanced without them, for instance, in the case of Turing and computers, without his genius, they would never have been invented.

I think you are missing the point....Computers were not created, before the vacuum tubes or electricity were they?
The basic theory is; nothing is "created" in a total absence of some prior knowledge, idea or invention. It takes social interaction to pass these ideas amoungest people even if it is subliminal or indirect.
And to suggest that they would not have been invented with out Turing, is not exactly true. There a number of persons working on the idea, long before Turing. It just clicked with him at the right moment. The same is true of the telephone, motion picture cameras, the light bulbs, etc., etc, etc.
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Buhweet
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #277 on: June 14, 2010, 05:55 PM »
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That was the theme of the programme on Geniuses on Channel 4. All the contributions of their Geniuses were not only described as unique but heralded as being so unique that science would never have advanced without them, for instance, in the case of Turing and computers, without his genius, they would never have been invented.

BTW....who else was mentioned on the genius program?
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Clydey
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #278 on: June 14, 2010, 06:04 PM »
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I think you are missing the point....Computers were not created, before the vacuum tubes or electricity were they?
The basic theory is; nothing is "created" in a total absence of some prior knowledge, idea or invention. It takes social interaction to pass these ideas amoungest people even if it is subliminal or indirect.
And to suggest that they would not have been invented with out Turing, is not exactly true. There a number of persons working on the idea, long before Turing. It just clicked with him at the right moment. The same is true of the telephone, motion picture cameras, the light bulbs, etc., etc, etc.

Do you work in the field of sociology or social research, Buhweet, or did you go another way after your degree?
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Buhweet
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #279 on: June 14, 2010, 06:37 PM »
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Do you work in the field of sociology or social research, Buhweet, or did you go another way after your degree?
Sociology/history were my first loves....unfortunately I never pursued it as a career and took a drastic turn. I got tired of living on 25 cent-a-cup coffee and free crackers in the student union!!! The US GI bill, and my after hours work paid for my university. When the GI bill ran out, so did I!!! I was working on my masters in Metalsmithing and sculpture, believe it or not. Along the way, my optional courses were in the sciences.
Long story but I went to work in the very industrial setting I studied. I'm technical director/manager for a petro-chemical laboratory. (At this time, Intertek Portugal) But I still do some reading now and again in the field....
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Clydey
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #280 on: June 14, 2010, 06:43 PM »
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Sociology/history were my first loves....unfortunately I never pursued it as a career and took a drastic turn. I got tired of living on 25 cent-a-cup coffee and free crackers in the student union!!! The US GI bill, and my after hours work paid for my university. When the GI bill ran out, so did I!!! I was working on my masters in Metalsmithing and sculpture, believe it or not. Along the way, my optional courses were in the sciences.
Long story but I went to work in the very industrial setting I studied. I'm technical director/manager for a petro-chemical laboratory. (At this time, Intertek Portugal) But I still do some reading now and again in the field....

Very impressive. Did you manage to get a doctorate or did you stop after your Masters?
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Buhweet
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #281 on: June 14, 2010, 06:48 PM »
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Very impressive. Did you manage to get a doctorate or did you stop after your Masters?
Masters only.
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Daisy
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #282 on: June 14, 2010, 06:57 PM »
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Very impressive. Did you manage to get a doctorate or did you stop after your Masters?

Is this the same person who posted this a week ago ...

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Is it any wonder we think of you as the forum retard?
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Clydey
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #283 on: June 14, 2010, 07:00 PM »
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Is this the same person who posted this a week ago ...


Yes, just as he's the same person who regularly insulted me. What's your point?

Things can change as you learn more information about someone.
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Re: Sociology Thread « Reply #284 on: June 14, 2010, 07:01 PM »
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Yes, just as he's the same person who regularly insulted me. What's your point?

Things can change as you learn more information about someone.

My point?  If you were the slightest bit astute ..... well, we'll just leave it at that ....
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