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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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MT
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3780 on: November 19, 2014, 12:35 AM »
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Poor old Philly Naepals!!  I will take him up on one query though - Scotland has it's  odious UKIP rep on the back of a tiny proportional vote on a very low turnout - can't be bothered to check the stats. All I know is that I was gobsmacked when I saw and heard him  on the telly during the referendum. The more airtime he gets the better  I reckon, he's a complete numpty, and he still lives in London. Ian Coburn is his name - check him out.  He looks and sounds distinctly dodgy.
I heard him at a referendum debate - he was hilarious like a pantomime villain talking about Johnny Foreigner and namby pamby do gooders. He kept calling the SNP lady speaker "luv" and "sweetheart" which drove her nuts. It was like stepping into a 1960s carry on film . I'm amazed he was elected.
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Yamor
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3781 on: November 19, 2014, 07:10 AM »
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I was honestly quite neutral in the whole debate (anyway not having researched it properly). And I understand people find boogers condescending etc etc. But why doesn't anyone answer his points? He's the only one writing clear, reasoned, evidence-based posts (by evidence-based I mean links to proper research, not just conspiracy theories).
Why not answer what he posts, and not just concentrate on his (perceived) attitude to Scots who voted YES?
I'm genuinely interested in hearing what the YES camp would answer to his points!
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3782 on: November 19, 2014, 08:19 AM »
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I don't know why they'd do that Bev, but whatever the reason, it would have to be financial as I'm sure they wouldn't discriminate! Maybe you could ask them?

Oh I have no doubt in my mind that it was purely financial but surely they would have known that what they were saying on one hand (be automatically admitted into the EU) would contradict EU rules on the other?  dontknow

"Unequal treatment based on nationality (or on residence, which in many
cases is de facto based on nationality) is regarded as discrimination which
is prohibited by Article 18 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU,
whenever such treatment falls within the scope of Treaty. This is the case
for the conditions of access to education, including tuition fees."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmscotaf/1144/114409.htm

I also see Alex Salmond has had a quote of his on uni fees set in stone and had its unveiling yesterday.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03110/salmond_3110243k.jpg
[ Last edit by Bevc November 19, 2014, 08:34 AM ] IP Logged
Thevalley
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3783 on: November 19, 2014, 08:25 AM »
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As a Scot and a socialist, I voted no because the SNP cannot deliver the society the people of Scotland need. The Labour party is in a bad way in Scotland which partially explains the success of the SNP. However in the run up to the vote the SNP were prepared to say anything and make any economic promise they in a effort to win the independence prize. Any former labour supporters who have switched should ask themselves what is nationalism - at best it is about self determination - but in reality nationalism ends in self interest, hatred of other countries (and races), and is ultimately a fascist based outlook. Don't be fooled, the SNP have a lot more in common with UKIP than any other party.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3784 on: November 19, 2014, 09:16 AM »
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As a Scot and a socialist, I voted no because the SNP cannot deliver the society the people of Scotland need. The Labour party is in a bad way in Scotland which partially explains the success of the SNP. However in the run up to the vote the SNP were prepared to say anything and make any economic promise they in a effort to win the independence prize. Any former labour supporters who have switched should ask themselves what is nationalism - at best it is about self determination - but in reality nationalism ends in self interest, hatred of other countries (and races), and is ultimately a fascist based outlook. Don't be fooled, the SNP have a lot more in common with UKIP than any other party.

What a load of rubbish.    Exactly why your party is "in a bad way in Scotland".   Stop peddling Labour ideology and start thinking for yourself.   Don't believe Johann Lamont.     Scots are genetically programmed to make political decisions.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3785 on: November 19, 2014, 09:37 AM »
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I was honestly quite neutral in the whole debate (anyway not having researched it properly). And I understand people find boogers condescending etc etc. But why doesn't anyone answer his points? He's the only one writing clear, reasoned, evidence-based posts (by evidence-based I mean links to proper research, not just conspiracy theories).
Why not answer what he posts, and not just concentrate on his (perceived) attitude to Scots who voted YES?
I'm genuinely interested in hearing what the YES camp would answer to his points!

There are about a dozen reasons but I'll give you three.    1.    If you look back it's probably been done.   2.    Each side would just look for the research and facts and figures which supports its view.   3.   What is the answer to "undeniably bought into the lies peddled in the SNP white paper"   Is it "undeniably bought into the lies peddled by Alistair (house flipping) Darling"?   Kindergarten stuff.   
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3786 on: November 19, 2014, 09:56 AM »
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1.    If you look back it's probably been done.

Nope.

Quote
2.    Each side would just look for the research and facts and figures which supports its view.

I'd love to engage in a debate on this level, instead of being subjected to continual ad hominem attacks!

Quote
3.   What is the answer to "undeniably bought into the lies peddled in the SNP white paper"   Is it "undeniably bought into the lies peddled by Alistair (house flipping) Darling"?   Kindergarten stuff.

Why don't you start with the factual stuff, like this allegation over Ian Woods getting a fracking license? Show me some evidence.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3787 on: November 19, 2014, 10:16 AM »
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Nope.ate

I'd love to engage in a debate on this level, instead of being subjected to continual ad hominem attacks!

Why don't you start with the factual stuff, like this allegation over Ian Woods getting a fracking license? Show me some evidence.


Boogers.    I have better things to do with my time - such as the ironing.    I can't believe I just said that.    I know nothing about Ian Woods' alleged fracking licence.    I can't believe you have the nerve to complain about ad hominem attacks.    You even wandered back to same sex marriage in one of your posts with what I took to be intended as an insult with the reference to amorphous blob.   It's all a waste of time and I don't have time to waste.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3788 on: November 19, 2014, 11:01 AM »
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Boogers has had many responses to his "evidence-based" posts. But the fact is his perception and my perception of the political landscape is totally different. He thinks like a bean counter, whereas I'm more interested in growing and distributing the beans. 
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Fiverings
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3789 on: November 19, 2014, 11:07 AM »
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As a Scot and a socialist, I voted no because the SNP cannot deliver the society the people of Scotland need. The Labour party is in a bad way in Scotland which partially explains the success of the SNP. However in the run up to the vote the SNP were prepared to say anything and make any economic promise they in a effort to win the independence prize. Any former labour supporters who have switched should ask themselves what is nationalism - at best it is about self determination - but in reality nationalism ends in self interest, hatred of other countries (and races), and is ultimately a fascist based outlook. Don't be fooled, the SNP have a lot more in common with UKIP than any other party.
  This is really silly - and rather rich considering that old-fashioned as well as neo-imperialism are much more likely to create the mentality you describe. The comparison of the SNP with UKIP is ridiculous,  UKIP is the Tory party without a mask.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #3790 on: November 20, 2014, 01:31 PM »
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Oh I have no doubt in my mind that it was purely financial but surely they would have known that what they were saying on one hand (be automatically admitted into the EU) would contradict EU rules on the other?  dontknow

"Unequal treatment based on nationality (or on residence, which in many
cases is de facto based on nationality) is regarded as discrimination which
is prohibited by Article 18 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU,
whenever such treatment falls within the scope of Treaty. This is the case
for the conditions of access to education, including tuition fees."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmscotaf/1144/114409.htm

I also see Alex Salmond has had a quote of his on uni fees set in stone and had its unveiling yesterday.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03110/salmond_3110243k.jpg
Yes of course they would know that Bev, which is why they'd have tried to negotiate and if that was unsuccessful, it would probably mean the end of free education in Scotland! That would be a sad day for the people of Scotland, but I've no doubt there are some individuals who would welcome it, which is sad!
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