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Off-topic discussions [merged]

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Elly
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7095 on: June 16, 2013, 12:26 PM »
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It really depends on the claim being made. Many of them are so easily and confidently debunked.

Other questions have answers that are simply out of our reach or are exclusively provided by government.
How does it depend on the claim being made, if not subjective?
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Mark
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7096 on: June 16, 2013, 12:43 PM »
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How does it depend on the claim being made, if not subjective?
Some claims are just outright false for all to see and others foolishly jump far to quickly to a sinister conclusion without much thought.

For example, one easily debunked misleading claim was that an air traffic controller reported that they thought flight 77 was a military plane. But really it was a partial quote and when you read all of it, it suggests something completely different.

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane" Woah exciting. Then add the bit on the end, "you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." and now it makes sense.

And then silly ones like the claim that employees at the Pentagon were seen suspiciously carrying away a large box shrouded in a blue tarp. Turned out it was a tent, used to aid in the crash response. The filmmakers admitted later this was a mistake on their part. Ridiculous they would include that in an apparent documentary.
[ Last edit by Mark June 16, 2013, 12:47 PM ] IP Logged
tennis_girl
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7097 on: June 16, 2013, 12:46 PM »
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I wish people were more selective with their conspiracies and only backed those that have genuine evidence.

The NSA conspiracy has been going on for years with several whistle blowers before Snowden. But the government got away with it because no documents were released. You see, this is a real conspiracy that is being revealed.

Promoting the idea that the government planned 9/11, when this theory has been debunked in detail, just gives the word 'conspiracy theory' a bad name.

I'm still confused as to how this is being called a conspiracy? The Patriot Act wasn't a secret.
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Mark
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7098 on: June 16, 2013, 12:50 PM »
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I'm still confused as to how this is being called a conspiracy? The Patriot Act wasn't a secret.
I agree it's still to be decided whether it was technically legal. To me it's looking more and more like they abused the law and in which case whether it's technically right or wrong shouldn't really matter.

But what's particularly upsetting is the constant lying by General Alexander to congress.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7099 on: June 16, 2013, 12:50 PM »
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Also, I'm not saying it's not outrageously offensive or unconstitutional (it is). I'm just really confused as to how no one could have predicted that after the Patriot Act.
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Elly
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7100 on: June 16, 2013, 12:51 PM »
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I'm still confused as to how this is being called a conspiracy? The Patriot Act wasn't a secret.
And a bunch of guys signing something will really prove all.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7101 on: June 16, 2013, 12:53 PM »
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I agree it's still to be decided whether it was technically legal. To me it's looking more and more like they abused the law and in which case whether it's technically right or wrong shouldn't really matter.

But what's particularly upsetting is the constant lying by General Alexander to congress.

When it comes to the "War on Terror," I can't help but roll my eyes. The government got lucky after 9/11 because the public was so panicked and horrified, they were willing to let the government go far beyond the scope to "secure freedom" and 10+ years later, are no longer as panicked. It's going to be pretty difficult for current/future administrations to justify this sort of stuff to the electorate but I just wish people were also as weary back in 2001.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7102 on: June 16, 2013, 12:54 PM »
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And a bunch of guys signing something will really prove all.

yawn
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Mark
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7103 on: June 16, 2013, 12:57 PM »
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Personally I think the threat from Islamic extremists is a serious concern on a domestic level. My main issue is with major decisions directly affecting everyone, being made in secret. And then the public being outright lied to in congress.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7104 on: June 16, 2013, 12:59 PM »
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Personally I think the threat from Islamic extremists is a serious concern on a domestic level. My main issue is with major decisions directly affecting everyone, being made in secret. And then the public being outright lied to in congress.

I don't think that justifies going around the 4th amendment in the biggest way possible not to mention, I'm pretty sure they've not been forthcoming about whether they give other incriminating evidence (non-terrorist related) to the appropriate authorities. That's a large concern for me, as it basically suggests local authorities don't need a search warrant or probable cause.
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Elly
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7105 on: June 16, 2013, 01:00 PM »
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Personally I think the threat from Islamic extremists is a serious concern on a domestic level. My main issue is with major decisions directly affecting everyone, being made in secret. And then the public being outright lied to in congress.
Totally agree.  We have no way to know what's going on and how it may affect us.  That's so wrong.
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Mark
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7106 on: June 16, 2013, 01:03 PM »
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I don't think that justifies going around the 4th amendment in the biggest way possible not to mention, I'm pretty sure they've not been forthcoming about whether they give other incriminating evidence (non-terrorist related) to the appropriate authorities. That's a large concern for me, as it basically suggests local authorities don't need a search warrant or probable cause.
The public should debate and decide whether they want to throw away their privacy. Who knows, maybe they would end up agreeing with the authorities. That's fine.

I think I read they might be giving warrants for all requests for a set period of time like a year, rather than individual cases. If that is true then someone needs to suffer.
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Elly
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7107 on: June 16, 2013, 01:14 PM »
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The public should debate and decide whether they want to throw away their privacy. Who knows, maybe they would end up agreeing with the authorities. That's fine.

I think I read they might be giving warrants for all requests for a set period of time like a year, rather than individual cases. If that is true then someone needs to suffer.
But sadly, it's not up to the public - it's up to the twits we vote for who we hope will represent us.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7108 on: June 16, 2013, 02:02 PM »
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I wish people were more selective with their conspiracies and only backed those that have genuine evidence.

The NSA conspiracy has been going on for years with several whistle blowers before Snowden. But the government got away with it because no documents were released. You see, this is a real conspiracy that is being revealed.

Promoting the idea that the government planned 9/11, when this theory has been debunked in detail, just gives the word 'conspiracy theory' a bad name.

Lack of evidence (or genuine evidence in your post) only means lack of evidence and nothing more. There are many cold cases where perpetrator didn't get caught only because, the police didn't have enough evidence against them, even when they were more than sure of the perpetrators. And these criminals went on to live a perfectly normal life after committing those heinous crimes.

What is especially difficult is to prove a crime that is planned by someone or a group of people. Because a planned event means, they have thought of all possibilities of loop holes before executing it and if it's done by an intelligent person or a group of intelligent people especially those are in great power, it becomes impossible to prove it. The only thing would then be is that, you know about it but you can't prove it. And sometimes, even if you have evidence, it's still impossible to come forward because that would mean putting ones' life on the line literally along with everything else. It is by no means a simple matter.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean June 16, 2013, 02:25 PM ] IP Logged
Mark
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Re: Off-topic discussions [merged] « Reply #7109 on: June 16, 2013, 02:38 PM »
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Regardless of why there might be lack of evidence, it's not sensible to believe anything without evidence.
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