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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
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Scottish politics

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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1140 on: November 26, 2013, 01:11 PM »
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White Paper: keep all the bits the we like and get rid of the bits we don't like.

Very sensible.    Not very often that politicians come up with such a good idea.
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rob92
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1141 on: November 26, 2013, 03:00 PM »
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Very sensible.    Not very often that politicians come up with such a good idea.
A politician that makes a load of promises that he can't keep when reality hits is a just another politician.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1142 on: November 26, 2013, 03:03 PM »
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The way I look at it, is few people in Scotland vote Tory. The Labour party in Scotland is just an extention of the English Labour Pary who continue to direct the SLP. If England continue to vote Tory we in Scotland will be governed by a party we did not vote for and who do not care a hoot about Scotland.So if we want a better future vote SNP otherwise nothing will change and we still be governed by rich public schoolboys who do not give a stuff about Scotland.Also about independence vote No and you will be able to get orders for RN ships if not you will loose your jobs such a lovely Tory Government who like to threaten people.You only have to look at this governments(UK) and see how they keep the rich rich and the poor get poorer some government they are.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1143 on: November 26, 2013, 03:55 PM »
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A politician that makes a load of promises that he can't keep when reality hits is a just another politician.
A politician that makes a load of promises that he can't keep when reality hits is a just another politician.

I agree with you there.    I look on politicians as a necessary evil (I exempt Margo McDonald) but generally I don't like them as a breed.    Promises made from Westminster have no more value than those from Holyrood and the home team are closer to my thinking on how a country should be run.   
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Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1144 on: November 26, 2013, 04:11 PM »
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As far as I can see - although, admittedly, I have only read the synopsis - Salmond's White Paper tells us absolutely nothing we didn't already know and much of what it does say is based on supposition and conjecture.  We will keep the pound .......... if the Bank of England allows us to.  We will stay in the EU ............  if the member states permit us to - ditto for NATO etc. etc.   We will welcome immigrants to support our ageing population - the immigrants will not, of course, age.  Welcome to the promised land!
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1145 on: November 26, 2013, 05:11 PM »
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As far as I can see - although, admittedly, I have only read the synopsis - Salmond's White Paper tells us absolutely nothing we didn't already know and much of what it does say is based on supposition and conjecture.  We will keep the pound .......... if the Bank of England allows us to.  We will stay in the EU ............  if the member states permit us to - ditto for NATO etc. etc.   We will welcome immigrants to support our ageing population - the immigrants will not, of course, age.  Welcome to the promised land!

The supposition and conjecture also comes in the opposite direction and the truth is NO-ONE knows exactly what will happen.     It would, however, be very inconvenient for the rest of the UK, as well as for Scotland, not to have the same currency.    Why would the EU not want us?    Or NATO?     I've heard scare stories over the years about devolution and don't give much credence to statements from Westminster - the home of dodgy dossiers.    As for the immigrants, if they listened to the spokesman from the IFS last week, they should stay away, as he said the population is ageing faster in Scotland than in the rest of the UK.     Maybe if I move down south I'll be able to knock a few years off my age.   

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rob92
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1146 on: November 26, 2013, 05:13 PM »
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The way I look at it, is few people in Scotland vote Tory. The Labour party in Scotland is just an extention of the English Labour Pary who continue to direct the SLP. If England continue to vote Tory we in Scotland will be governed by a party we did not vote for and who do not care a hoot about Scotland.So if we want a better future vote SNP otherwise nothing will change and we still be governed by rich public schoolboys who do not give a stuff about Scotland.Also about independence vote No and you will be able to get orders for RN ships if not you will loose your jobs such a lovely Tory Government who like to threaten people.You only have to look at this governments(UK) and see how they keep the rich rich and the poor get poorer some government they are.
Texas didn't vote for Obama.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1147 on: November 26, 2013, 05:16 PM »
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No one said it would be easy if you sink the boat before it gets started what a negative attitude to take. If you take everything the NO campaign says we are like a third world country. Lets face it either be content to be dominated by the Tories in London or do something about it. Cameron is a rich public schoolboy with not a clue how the other half lives do you want to be ruled forever with that lot I know I don't . As for the pound it is not the property of The Bank of England it was a Scot who started it. So it all has to be worked out. I watched a program last night called our friends in the North maybe you should watch it, it was very interesting.
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rob92
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1148 on: November 26, 2013, 05:30 PM »
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No one said it would be easy if you sink the boat before it gets started what a negative attitude to take. If you take everything the NO campaign says we are like a third world country. Lets face it either be content to be dominated by the Tories in London or do something about it. Cameron is a rich public schoolboy with not a clue how the other half lives do you want to be ruled forever with that lot I know I don't . As for the pound it is not the property of The Bank of England it was a Scot who started it. So it all has to be worked out. I watched a program last night called our friends in the North maybe you should watch it, it was very interesting.
Here is example of the ugly side of nationalism.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1149 on: November 26, 2013, 05:40 PM »
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No it is not. It happens to be true. You have obviously made your mind up before the campaign even starts. I am being realistic. Everything I have said is the truth it is up to you what you believe, that is your decision I have made up my mind as well and we will have to see what happens. Politics on the whole are ugly so do not tell me about it I know already. You have your opinion which you are welcome to express just as I have mine.
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rob92
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1150 on: November 26, 2013, 05:55 PM »
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I am English why am not getting a vote on the future of United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland. The simple fact is if Scotland go independent then there will be no United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1151 on: November 26, 2013, 06:21 PM »
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All very interesting...if Scots vote "yes" then Labour will have great difficulty getting back into power and the rest of us will be ruled by "Tory Toffs" for ever and ever.
And the irony is that if Scots had voted for independence 25 years ago, the rest of us wouldn't have had to endure Blair/Brown/Campbell etc etc Rolling Eyes
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Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1152 on: November 26, 2013, 06:56 PM »
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I am English why am not getting a vote on the future of United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland. The simple fact is if Scotland go independent then there will be no United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland.

Quite right - I agree that it is grossly unfair that the vast majority of UK residents will have no say in what could be a seismic change for everyone in the UK not just Scotland.  Just in the same way that Scottish MPs voting on purely English affairs at Westminster is grossly unfair in my view. I make no secret of the fact that I hope Scotland votes a resounding 'No' on September 18th.  I am proud to be Scottish but I am also very proud to be British and really believe that we are better together.  I don't doubt for a moment that Scotland could go it alone but don't believe that we would be better for it.  I  hope that eventually we move to a federal Britain with fiscal autonomy for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - the best of both worlds in my opinion.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1153 on: November 26, 2013, 07:01 PM »
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All very interesting...if Scots vote "yes" then Labour will have great difficulty getting back into power and the rest of us will be ruled by "Tory Toffs" for ever and ever.
And the irony is that if Scots had voted for independence 25 years ago, the rest of us wouldn't have had to endure Blair/Brown/Campbell etc etc Rolling Eyes

Sorry about that Bbh but we are in effect disenfranchised in a UK election by sheer lack of numbers.   And the Tory right wing will have more power and probably get you out of Europe and possibly contribute to the demise of Ukip.    Blair was born in Edinburgh but his biological parents were English and apart from Fettes most of his education was in England.    Alastair Campbell was born of Scottish parents in England and educated in England.    Gordon Brown was homegrown.     25 years ago we were not given the chance to vote for independence, but hang on and, with luck, the rest of you will not have to endure someone like Gordon Brown again although you may be lumbered with Blair and Campbell lookalikes.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1154 on: November 26, 2013, 07:44 PM »
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Scotland won't become independent.
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