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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1155 on: November 26, 2013, 07:54 PM »
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I have already stated that we should have a Federal System but the UK government are not interested. They had their chance but ignored it. They want all the financial powers and that is what it boils down to all the scaremongering that is going on is unbelievable they want control of the oil and gas revenues. That is the only reason that they do not want Scottish Independence if we did not have them they would quite happily give Scotland it's freedom without hesitation.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1156 on: November 26, 2013, 07:54 PM »
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No one said it would be easy if you sink the boat before it gets started what a negative attitude to take. If you take everything the NO campaign says we are like a third world country. Lets face it either be content to be dominated by the Tories in London or do something about it. Cameron is a rich public schoolboy with not a clue how the other half lives do you want to be ruled forever with that lot I know I don't . As for the pound it is not the property of The Bank of England it was a Scot who started it. So it all has to be worked out. I watched a program last night called our friends in the North maybe you should watch it, it was very interesting.
The fact that the Bank of England was founded in 1694 by a Scot, William Paterson, who also founded the Bank of Scotland the following year, has got nothing to do with this.  It was Paterson too who was the chief instigator of the infamous Darien Scheme which effectively bankrupted Scotland, already a poor country, thereby finally pushing it towards union with England - which is where the frequently quoted "bought and sold for English gold" comes in.  While it's known that some bribery was going on behind the scenes, ultimately had it not been finally agreed that England would pay Scotland a considerable sum of money, which was known as The Equivalent and which meant that England would meet Scotland's share of the National Debt as compensation for her losses in the Dariien Scheme, it's just possible that the Treaty may not have gone through.  Incidentally this was the two countries' fourth attempt at parliamentary union since the succession of James VI of Scotland to the English throne in 1603, with the King himself being in favour of such a union.

Re the pound - As I understand it, Scotland could still keep the pound while remaining pegged to the pound sterling, which is what was agreed under the terms of the Treaty, but, like many pegged currencies, e.g. the dollar, which is pegged to the USD, it's value would rise and fall along with the pound sterling, which in turn affects the Rate of Excrihange mechanism and so could potentially affect trade and the economy.

I am English why am not getting a vote on the future of United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland. The simple fact is if Scotland go independent then there will be no United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and Northern Ireland.
I agree that England, Wales and N Ireland should have a say in this matter because, should Scotland become independent, it will undoubtedly have a massive knock-on effect on the UK as a whole.  With all four nations being so closely intertwined since 1707, complete separation of Scotland from the rest of the UK could be very difficult to achieve in anything like a satisfactory outcome on all sides.  I've long made no secret of the fact that a federal Britain would be the best option but, of course, Alex Salmond doesn't want this question on the ballot paper, claiming it would make it too complicated - like we're all too thick to cope with it. Rolling Eyes  All that he's succeeded in doing is to make the whole thing much more divisive, which was probably his intention anyway, but sadly it's meant that Scotland is becoming a nation at war with itself.

Westminster also raised the question of the expense of a referendum all round.  Given a lot of the tripe they spend their money on, surely this independence issue should be of paramount importance?

[ Last edit by Aileen November 26, 2013, 08:17 PM ] IP Logged
blueberryhill
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1157 on: November 26, 2013, 08:06 PM »
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@ iluvandy
Blair, Brown, Lord Irving, Darling, Cook, Robertson, Dewar, Strang, Reid, Liddell for starters. a disproportionate representation wouldn't you say?
Wasn't Blair's father an Edinburgh lawyer?
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1158 on: November 26, 2013, 08:12 PM »
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You should tell Cameron about this Aileen as he was the one who set out who could vote and who could not. Better late than never, he did not want any part of the debate and enticed Alistair Darling to lead the "Better together group". Also got his friends in the Liberal party to participate to. So the blame is sorely on the Prime Minister. He was the one who decided who would get the vote and who could not. If you want someone to take the blame it is Cameron.
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Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1159 on: November 26, 2013, 08:17 PM »
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I have already stated that we should have a Federal System but the UK government are not interested. They had their chance but ignored it. They want all the financial powers and that is what it boils down to all the scaremongering that is going on is unbelievable they want control of the oil and gas revenues. That is the only reason that they do not want Scottish Independence if we did not have them they would quite happily give Scotland it's freedom without hesitation.

Give it time - federalism will come.  The Welsh Assembly is already asking for the extra powers that Scotland already has.  I believe it is the fairest resolution for all the home nations and we will get there eventually.

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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1160 on: November 26, 2013, 08:17 PM »
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@ iluvandy
Blair, Brown, Lord Irving, Darling, Cook, Robertson, Dewar, Strang, Reid, Liddell for starters. a disproportionate representation wouldn't you say?
Wasn't Blair's father an Edinburgh lawyer?

But they only get power when a large part of England votes Labour.  Mostly they vote Tory andthe wealth is concentrated in the SE of England.    You cannot have a real partnership when one partner is so outnumbered.    I thought Blair's father was a third rate actor.     Probably where the grin came from.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1161 on: November 26, 2013, 08:23 PM »
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I think it is grasping at straws to say England, Wales and NI should have a say in whether Scotland should be independent.   We are outvoted often enough.    That is taking colonialisation a step too far.     
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1162 on: November 26, 2013, 08:27 PM »
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I agree Iluvandy. If a Federal system had been agreed there would not be an independence vote. But as usual Mr Cameron was not interested and that is why the independence vote will go ahead.Scotland had always been a Labour stronghold but not any more Scots got fed up with them as they took the Scottish vote for granted. The SNP have won two elections in the Scottish Parliament and have shown that they can govern. The Tories will be in power as Labour cannot depend on seats from Scotland. Also you are correct about the wealth being concentrated in the SE of England.
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Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1163 on: November 26, 2013, 08:32 PM »
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But they only get power when a large part of England votes Labour.  Mostly they vote Tory andthe wealth is concentrated in the SE of England.    You cannot have a real partnership when one partner is so outnumbered.    I thought Blair's father was a third rate actor.     Probably where the grin came from.

As far as I know, Leo Blair (Senior) was born illegitimately to a couple of travelling entertainers from Yorkshire.  He was adopted by an Islay shipyard worker living in Glasgow and his Irish wife.  He became a barrister and practised in Scotland, England and abroad.  One of his sons became a high court judge, the other became the Prime Minister - not bad given his humble beginnings!  The third rate actor you are thinking about may have been Cherie Blair's father.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1164 on: November 26, 2013, 08:41 PM »
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You should tell Cameron about this Aileen as he was the one who set out who could vote and who could not. Better late than never, he did not want any part of the debate and enticed Alistair Darling to lead the "Better together group". Also got his friends in the Liberal party to participate to. So the blame is sorely on the Prime Minister. He was the one who decided who would get the vote and who could not. If you want someone to take the blame it is Cameron.
Part of the blame, I agree, but Salmond was perfectly happy to go along with it.  As you know, Salmond is a bit of a bruiser and a force to be reckoned with, so why didn't he stand up for what he originally wanted?  The answer is that of course he didn't because it wasn't in his own selfish interests to do so.  The fact that 'conversations' with the people of Scotland showed that many would have chosen the federal option was simply pushed to one side, and I hope he pays the penalty for failing to completely uphold the wishes of the people he purports to care about, with the referendum either producing a clear No vote, or he finds himself trying to sort out the tangled web which will ensue if the vote is Yes, something which could take years to do.

I think it is grasping at straws to say England, Wales and NI should have a say in whether Scotland should be independent.   We are outvoted often enough.    That is taking colonialisation a step too far.     
I disagree, because as far as I can see, a lot of English people would be content with an independent Scotland, not necessarily just because they see Scotland as being a leech, but because they genuinely believe that a divided UK would be a good thing.  As for the Welsh, and I'm sure BBH will keep me right, my feeling is that they too might have some sympathy with the idea of an independent Scotland, and the Welsh Assembly is certainly taking a keen interest in events here.
[ Last edit by Aileen November 26, 2013, 08:53 PM ] IP Logged
Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1165 on: November 26, 2013, 08:57 PM »
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Of course, it is not a given that Salmond would stay as First Minister after the first election in a newly independent Scotland.  Surely, if Scotland becomes an independent nation, the SNP party would by definition become redundant and Salmond could well find himself ousted. 
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1166 on: November 26, 2013, 08:59 PM »
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Part of the blame, I agree, but Salmond was perfectly happy to go along with it.  As you know, Salmond is a bit of a bruiser and a force to be reckoned with, so why didn't he stand up for what he originally wanted?  The answer is that of course he didn't because it wasn't in his own selfish interests to do so.  The fact that 'conversations' with the people of Scotland showed that many would have chosen the federal option was simply pushed to one side, and I hope he pays the penalty for failing to completely uphold the wishes of the people he purports to care about, with the referendum either producing a clear No vote, or he finds himself trying to sort out the tangled web which will ensue if the vote is Yes, something which could take years to do,

I don't understand Salmond's "own selfish interests".    He believes Scotland should be independent and is pursuing his belief.     I happen to agree with him but I don't understand what is selfish about it.    It is a belief I have held for many years - pre-Salmond in fact - and I don't call down anyone who happens to disagree with me.   
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1167 on: November 26, 2013, 09:02 PM »
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Of course, it is not a given that Salmond would stay as First Minister after the first election in a newly independent Scotland.  Surely, if Scotland becomes an independent nation, the SNP party would by definition become redundant and Salmond could well find himself ousted. 

Alex Salmond has already pointed that out.    There will be an election after Independence.    However if the Scots have enough sense to vote for independence then I think they will go on and vote for the most capable government available to them.   Like him or not he is probably the most able politician in the whole country.
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angiebabez
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1168 on: November 26, 2013, 10:03 PM »
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Nicola Sturgeon will take over after the election win or lose! Watch this space.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #1169 on: November 26, 2013, 10:26 PM »
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@Aileen    Bbh will know better, but I thought Carwyn Jones was given extra powers and sent up here to say he disagreed with Scottish Independence.
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