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Poll
Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Alis
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #30 on: September 16, 2012, 06:30 PM »
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I am for a Federal UK with all countries having their own powers to rule. With those extra powers that are required I think Scotland would be happy. Westminster would make decisions about the army and foreign policy this I think would be a good solution. It seems to work well in Australia.

I agree lb - I've thought for a long time that a federal U.K. is the way forward.  England deserves its own parliament or parliaments.  Let each country/region have fiscal autonomy but come together for foreign policy and defence.  The only sensible solution in my view and it seems to work well in many other countries.
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backhandslice
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #31 on: September 16, 2012, 06:30 PM »
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Is this Modern Studies?   Oh goody  I love that.  *gets popcorn *     continue please.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #32 on: September 16, 2012, 07:35 PM »
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Is this Modern Studies?   Oh goody  I love that.  *gets popcorn *     continue please.


Lol john, u just killed the debate stone dead Whistle
Pass the popcorn please
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #33 on: September 16, 2012, 07:44 PM »
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I agree lb - I've thought for a long time that a federal U.K. is the way forward.  England deserves its own parliament or parliaments.  Let each country/region have fiscal autonomy but come together for foreign policy and defence.  The only sensible solution in my view and it seems to work well in many other countries.

I go along with that too as an alternative to outright independence, which is one reason I want to see a second question on the ballot papers come the referendum.  This "straightforward" yes or no to independence is useless because I'm pretty sure that the noes will win hands down and so the status quo will be preserved - something which is not in the interests for the future of the UK.

It makes sense that each nation should look after it's own domestic affairs, and a lot of inter-nation friction, mainly between Scotland and England, would also be avoided by going down this road.
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tamila
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #34 on: September 16, 2012, 07:56 PM »
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The only problem with independence is the dreadful expense to the taxpayer.  So many things will need to change.  Union Flag etc. etc.  It just seems like a pipe dread to me.
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Murray Magic
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #35 on: September 16, 2012, 08:00 PM »
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I am not so sure that the answer to the outright question will be no, I think a lot of people think there is not an alternative for Scotland due to ineffective opposition, some of  the things that are happening south of the border are scary!!  I think although the Olympics were amazing, the total spend is going to come back and bite Cameron & Co on the backside as the recession hits harder and harder. It has been publicised that the money that has come in from the Olympics is no where near what was envisaged by retailers etc. 

I work for the NHS and although there are a lot of things wrong with it, there are a heck of a lot of things right with it and am glad the SNP place it high on their agenda, as down South it remains to be seen whether plans to contract out etc will go ahead which if it does will be the first step in it's demise.

It is such a big decision for our nation and there is a lot more information to be read yet before people can decide.  I used to be a life long Labour voter until the last couple of years when I defected to SNP not due to the independence thing but because I believe they have done a lot of good for Scotland and for the Scottish people.  I love Scotland and everything it stands for and would hate to see it spiral into something uncontrollable, I am a proud scot and always will be whatever happens.


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lgriev10
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #36 on: September 16, 2012, 09:55 PM »
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You certainly jump to conclusions don't you-and jump so quickly you read what you want to read into what I said. Away and watch some tennis and calm down. Oh by the way I am a graduate. Of Glasgow University.
Let's stick to tennis shall we?

If you want to post an opinion, "that all nationalism is dangerous," and someone disagrees with that statement then you shouldn't be surprised, or then pretend that that is not what you meant.  If being complacent and patronising were the subjects you studied at Glasgow, then I have no trouble believing that you passed with 1st class honours. 

I shall continue to be interested in all aspects of life, but I suggest that you, you really should just stick to tennis.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #37 on: September 16, 2012, 11:53 PM »
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I am not so sure that the answer to the outright question will be no, I think a lot of people think there is not an alternative for Scotland due to ineffective opposition, some of  the things that are happening south of the border are scary!!  I think although the Olympics were amazing, the total spend is going to come back and bite Cameron & Co on the backside as the recession hits harder and harder. It has been publicised that the money that has come in from the Olympics is no where near what was envisaged by retailers etc. 

I work for the NHS and although there are a lot of things wrong with it, there are a heck of a lot of things right with it and am glad the SNP place it high on their agenda, as down South it remains to be seen whether plans to contract out etc will go ahead which if it does will be the first step in it's demise.

It is such a big decision for our nation and there is a lot more information to be read yet before people can decide.  I used to be a life long Labour voter until the last couple of years when I defected to SNP not due to the independence thing but because I believe they have done a lot of good for Scotland and for the Scottish people.  I love Scotland and everything it stands for and would hate to see it spiral into something uncontrollable, I am a proud scot and always will be whatever happens.
Interesting that you think the answer to the outright question could be yes.  Maybe you and I talk to different people because most of the people I know and have spoken to about independence simply do not want it but would be happy for an alternative option for the very good reason that you state at the end of your post, i.e. the fear that it could all spiral out of control.  I said in an earlier post that I greatly admire Salmond as a political leader, even if he is a devious individual at times (what politician isn't?), but that he wasn't going to be around forever and that there is nobody in the SNP, or indeed any of the other parties, who comes anywhere near him, therefore under a weaker series of leaders an independent country could well become uncontrollable.

However the one thing that a lot of people don't seem to realise is the fact that independence could never happen overnight.  It would take possibly years for a number of major issues to be sorted out, probably the greatest being the Constitution - will Scotland become a republic or still regard the Queen and her descendents as Head of State? - and the inevitable wrangling could itself lead to independence being strangled at birth. 

Equally many Scots who are shouting for independence seem to be unaware that Scotland is in fact already quite an independent country.  Thanks to the endeavours of the Scottish Parliament when the terms of the Treaty of Union were being thrashed out in 1706/1707, Scotland was allowed to keep its own Church, its own laws and educational system, and add to that the fact that the present parliament has its own devolved powers, one of those being, as you say, control of the NHS.

Ultimately though the final decision to overturn the Act of Union would have to come from the Parliament of Great Britain, so unless a yes vote was overwhelming, which is extremely unlikely, Westminster could simply refuse to allow this to happen.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #38 on: September 17, 2012, 12:33 AM »
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Most of the people I speak to don't want independence - lack of confidence I think.    Look what confidence did for Andy.   I'd say "go for it" for the simple reason I can't understand not wanting to run your own country.   Scotland has always had a good supply of able people, in fact we punch above our weight.    I don't feel the UK is balanced and although I don't agree with the SNP on everything -  same sex marriage is a no-no for me - I don't feel any better off with the lot down south.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #39 on: September 17, 2012, 12:52 AM »
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Yes but we've proved over the last ten years or so that we can run our own country and still remain part of the UK.  All Holyrood needs is more devolved powers and for Westminster to keep its nose out of our domestic business.  The way Cameron & Co behaved over the release of the Lockerbie Bomber was disgraceful.  That decision, whether people agree with it or not, was up to the Scottish judicial system and had nothing whatsoever to do with Westminster.  Now Cameron is doing his best to interfere with the referendum, and if the stupid man would only realise it, that by doing so he's playing directly into Alex Salmond's hands given how unpopular the Tories are in Scotland.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #40 on: September 17, 2012, 01:59 AM »
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Speaking as a Brit from afar, I wonder why Salmond (SNP) wants independence but is willing to keep the pound and an open border (these are 2 things off the top of my head)?  He appears to be cherry-picking.  Or have I got it wrong?

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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #41 on: September 17, 2012, 02:08 AM »
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No you're not wrong.  Salmond has started cherry-picking recently because he's basically having to back down a little by abandoning some of his more radical ideas in the hope that, by doing so, more people will back independence.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #42 on: September 17, 2012, 11:46 AM »
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Speaking as a Brit from afar, I wonder why Salmond (SNP) wants independence but is willing to keep the pound and an open border (these are 2 things off the top of my head)?  He appears to be cherry-picking.  Or have I got it wrong?




Not being an economist I'm not sure about keeping the pound but I don't see the problem with an open
border.   There is one already with the Republic of Ireland.
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Caz
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #43 on: September 17, 2012, 11:50 AM »
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If he didn't keep the pound, what would be the alternative? The Euro?  roflmao
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Caz
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #44 on: September 17, 2012, 11:51 AM »
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I go along with that too as an alternative to outright independence, which is one reason I want to see a second question on the ballot papers come the referendum.  This "straightforward" yes or no to independence is useless because I'm pretty sure that the noes will win hands down and so the status quo will be preserved - something which is not in the interests for the future of the UK.

It makes sense that each nation should look after it's own domestic affairs, and a lot of inter-nation friction, mainly between Scotland and England, would also be avoided by going down this road.
That seems like the best idea to me!
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