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Poll
Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Author Topic: Scottish politics  (Read 25854 times)
Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #45 on: September 17, 2012, 12:15 PM »
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The dollar?    Who knows.    Why not the pound?    Is it exclusively English or is it British?
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Iris
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #46 on: September 17, 2012, 12:19 PM »
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The dollar?    Who knows.    Why not the pound?    Is it exclusively English or is it British?
Why not revive the old currency of Scotland?
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #47 on: September 17, 2012, 12:33 PM »
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My take on Scottish independence.

- I voted SNP in the last election because Alex Salmond is the only real credible choice to be First Minister. The SNP have also introduced policies over the last 4-5 years which have made my life significantly easier (scrapping the tuition fees being one of them)

- However, I do fear for Scotland if we were to separate. Salmond outlined his vision on basing the Scottish ecomomy of the Irish (Celtic Tiger) and Icelandic role models. Well, skip forward a few years and that's a very, very scary thought. Ireland's debt is 105% of its GDP, crippling, unsustainable levels of debt.

- I'm proud to be Scottish, and I do value our devolved government, as it has led to groundbreaking decisions and policies like being the first in the UK to introduce the smoking ban, and hopefully, gay marriage. I recognise that Scotland has great potential with renewables energy for the future, once the oil and gas has dried up from the North Sea. However, I think the economic security of the union will prove useful because there will be turbulent times ahead with regards to the global economy. Scotland can be an affluent nation and yet still remain a part of the union. It's not mutually exclusive.

- I'm also proud to be British, and despite my indifference to the royal family, I thought the Olympics were a great vindication of this country.

Scotland will not be independent. Even with a Tory government in power down south. If Labour get back into Westminster, the odds will become even larger.
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tennis_girl
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #48 on: September 17, 2012, 12:41 PM »
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Why not revive the old currency of Scotland?

Because it would be worthless. It's a difficult endeavour to revive or create a currency that will be strong and stable. The last thing Scotland needs is a new currency that is unreliable and fluctuates considerably.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #49 on: September 17, 2012, 12:42 PM »
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And the cost of establishing a new currency would be relatively gargantuan.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 01:26 PM »
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My take on Scottish independence.

- I voted SNP in the last election because Alex Salmond is the only real credible choice to be First Minister. The SNP have also introduced policies over the last 4-5 years which have made my life significantly easier (scrapping the tuition fees being one of them)

- However, I do fear for Scotland if we were to separate. Salmond outlined his vision on basing the Scottish ecomomy of the Irish (Celtic Tiger) and Icelandic role models. Well, skip forward a few years and that's a very, very scary thought. Ireland's debt is 105% of its GDP, crippling, unsustainable levels of debt.

- I'm proud to be Scottish, and I do value our devolved government, as it has led to groundbreaking decisions and policies like being the first in the UK to introduce the smoking ban, and hopefully, gay marriage. I recognise that Scotland has great potential with renewables energy for the future, once the oil and gas has dried up from the North Sea. However, I think the economic security of the union will prove useful because there will be turbulent times ahead with regards to the global economy. Scotland can be an affluent nation and yet still remain a part of the union. It's not mutually exclusive.

- I'm also proud to be British, and despite my indifference to the royal family, I thought the Olympics were a great vindication of this country.

Scotland will not be independent. Even with a Tory government in power down south. If Labour get back into Westminster, the odds will become even larger.
Well said Andrew!
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Caz
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 01:27 PM »
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Because it would be worthless. It's a difficult endeavour to revive or create a currency that will be strong and stable. The last thing Scotland needs is a new currency that is unreliable and fluctuates considerably.
I agree with this too!
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 01:44 PM »
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If he didn't keep the pound, what would be the alternative? The Euro?  roflmao
I don't know what he was planning to call it but I think his breeks caught fire when the Euro started having serious problems!

And this is another reason for not wanting independence - Salmond is a Europhile.  Can you imagine Scotland being firmly wedded to Brussels?  At least Westminster is trying to some extent at least to wriggle out from under, even if Cameron is still refusing to allow us to have a referendum, although there have been signs recently that he's teetering.


My take on Scottish independence.

- I voted SNP in the last election because Alex Salmond is the only real credible choice to be First Minister. The SNP have also introduced policies over the last 4-5 years which have made my life significantly easier (scrapping the tuition fees being one of them)

- However, I do fear for Scotland if we were to separate. Salmond outlined his vision on basing the Scottish ecomomy of the Irish (Celtic Tiger) and Icelandic role models. Well, skip forward a few years and that's a very, very scary thought. Ireland's debt is 105% of its GDP, crippling, unsustainable levels of debt.

- I'm proud to be Scottish, and I do value our devolved government, as it has led to groundbreaking decisions and policies like being the first in the UK to introduce the smoking ban, and hopefully, gay marriage. I recognise that Scotland has great potential with renewables energy for the future, once the oil and gas has dried up from the North Sea. However, I think the economic security of the union will prove useful because there will be turbulent times ahead with regards to the global economy. Scotland can be an affluent nation and yet still remain a part of the union. It's not mutually exclusive.

- I'm also proud to be British, and despite my indifference to the royal family, I thought the Olympics were a great vindication of this country.

Scotland will not be independent. Even with a Tory government in power down south. If Labour get back into Westminster, the odds will become even larger.
Good posting!

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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 02:19 PM »
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If he didn't keep the pound, what would be the alternative? The Euro?  roflmao
  The plack, perhaps?  Or how about the Andy? For our patron saint of course.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #54 on: September 17, 2012, 02:44 PM »
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My take on Scottish independence.

- I voted SNP in the last election because Alex Salmond is the only real credible choice to be First Minister. The SNP have also introduced policies over the last 4-5 years which have made my life significantly easier (scrapping the tuition fees being one of them)



Well said Andrew!

- However, I do fear for Scotland if we were to separate. Salmond outlined his vision on basing the Scottish ecomomy of the Irish (Celtic Tiger) and Icelandic role models. Well, skip forward a few years and that's a very, very scary thought. Ireland's debt is 105% of its GDP, crippling, unsustainable levels of debt.

- I'm proud to be Scottish, and I do value our devolved government, as it has led to groundbreaking decisions and policies like being the first in the UK to introduce the smoking ban, and hopefully, gay marriage. I recognise that Scotland has great potential with renewables energy for the future, once the oil and gas has dried up from the North Sea. However, I think the economic security of the union will prove useful because there will be turbulent times ahead with regards to the global economy. Scotland can be an affluent nation and yet still remain a part of the union. It's not mutually exclusive.

- I'm also proud to be British, and despite my indifference to the royal family, I thought the Olympics were a great vindication of this country.

Scotland will not be independent. Even with a Tory government in power down south. If Labour get back into Westminster, the odds will become even larger.

Salmond looked at the economies of Ireland and Iceland in that they could use what they had to their own advantage, but would not have based his vision on their economies as they are in no way similar to ours.     He more looked to Norway as having similar assets.     I don't know much about Iceland but I doubt if the Irish would want to be ruled again from Westminster despite their economic troubles.    They have been through much worse crises then the present one and will no doubt survive this one as well.





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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #55 on: September 17, 2012, 02:56 PM »
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Quote
Salmond looked at the economies of Ireland and Iceland in that they could use what they had to their own advantage, but would not have based his vision on their economies as they are in no way similar to ours.

"That is why I have come to Dublin to set out our aspirations for Scotland's future, how we will create a Celtic Lion economy to rival the Celtic Tiger across the Irish Sea and how we create a successful society, not just a successful economy''. (Alex Salmond in 2008)

They are very similar economies, I would argue, and by the looks of it, he wanted to model our own independent state on Ireland.

Ireland's banking sector imploded in 2010. Two out of their three biggest banks had to be re-capitalised. Were it not for the union, I'm pretty confident RBS would have followed suit. Could the Scottish government afford to recapitalise a bank the size of RBS? Not a chance.

I'd certainly be interested to hear what nationalists on this board want from independence, and how it would manifest itself in terms of practical issues (monetary policy and defence to name but a few)
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #56 on: September 17, 2012, 03:27 PM »
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I'd certainly be interested to hear what nationalists on this board want from independence, and how it would manifest itself in terms of practical issues (monetary policy and defence to name but a few)

Thats a huge ask, but here goes for a summary. I'm a nationalist because I believe more than ever in a federal Europe, and I am very wary of the so-called special relationship with USA that Blair, Cameron etc  seem to value so highly. I think Scotland has been and should be a key European nation.  I don't have any hang up on currency - the Euro aint going away, and may well end up bigger than sterling. At the moment we are encouraged to see the world through the distorted lens of the interests of the UK establishment, and we know how little we can trust them ( Diana, Iraq, Hillsborough to name just a few of the more obvious jaw-droppers )  And as for Alex Salmond - well he's only one man, but a very effective one, for all his faults. I have had opportunity to observe SNP government at work quite closely over the past years, and I have been generally well impressed with the ability and competence of the key players. 

Well thats my tuppence worth, and I'll be posting nothing further on the subject.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #57 on: September 17, 2012, 03:45 PM »
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As have I, hence why I voted for them in the 2011 election, they deserve their majority.

The Euro is a currency right on the precipice. Even with several austerity packages, Italy and Greece are close to financial ruin. Spain and Portugal not far behind.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #58 on: September 17, 2012, 03:47 PM »
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"That is why I have come to Dublin to set out our aspirations for Scotland's future, how we will create a Celtic Lion economy to rival the Celtic Tiger across the Irish Sea and how we create a successful society, not just a successful economy''. (Alex Salmond in 2008)

They are very similar economies, I would argue, and by the looks of it, he wanted to model our own independent state on Ireland.

Ireland's banking sector imploded in 2010. Two out of their three biggest banks had to be re-capitalised. Were it not for the union, I'm pretty confident RBS would have followed suit. Could the Scottish government afford to recapitalise a bank the size of RBS? Not a chance.

I'd certainly be interested to hear what nationalists on this board want from independence, and how it would manifest itself in terms of practical issues (monetary policy and defence to name but a few)

It is well known that RBS would be subject to a joint bail out between Scottish and English Governments, should that have been neccessary. The reason for this is that whilst the bank is indeed Scottish, a high proportion of its customers are actually from England, hence it is the responsibility of both Governments to look after their people. It would be madness to say that the English Government would allow RBS to be dealt with solely by Scottish Government as they would be failing their own voters (who not to mention would lose their money). Regardless of this, it is worth remembering the old chestnut of oil. Yes, an economy cannot be based solely on oil revenue, but it doesn't half help. Jim Callaghan is once quoted as saying "If it hadn't have been for Scottish Oil, the UK would have been bankrupt" or something along those lines. The Government tax revenue from oil is currently divided amongst the best past of 70 million people. Post independence, this figure is 5.5 million. That is an multiplies Government investment per head by 13 on oil tax revenues ALONE. That is a simplified estimation, but give or take 10% of the division of oil assets post independence between Scotland and England it all bodes very well for Scotland. The question in my opinion is not so much about how Scotland would survive without the rest of the UK, but how the rest of the UK would fare without Scotland. Scotland has a lot more going for it than people realise...

-Masses of oil fields left in the North Sea (estimated to last another 50 years at least - per BP's investment last year)
- Whiskey
- Home of Golf
- Renewable Energy research and development hub
- Tourism

These are just to name a few, Scotland has a lot more going for it than people realise
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #59 on: September 17, 2012, 03:48 PM »
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What I mean by the above about RBS is that the Governments would be obliged to contribute to a joint bailot, as the liabilities are shared primarily between the two countries.
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