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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Caz
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #60 on: September 17, 2012, 03:54 PM »
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[email protected]        I too am very wary of the 'special relationship' with America, as it all seems very 'one sided' [in favour of them, rather than us] and appears, in recent years to me at any rate, to have 'persuaded' us into places where we had no business being, doing things we had no business doing! I put this down, at least in part, to weak government this side of the pond and maybe more than a touch of pure greed, perhaps on both!
[ Last edit by Caz September 17, 2012, 04:02 PM ] IP Logged
Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #61 on: September 17, 2012, 04:04 PM »
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All interesting points, looking forward to reading more. Smile

Difficult to actually extricate ownership regarding North Sea oil. Be interesting to see how many £s are invested in the industry from Westminster directly.

As for renewables, great potential but nothing actually proven yet, and SNP have set very ambitious targets regarding energy. If wind and wave (tidal) energy can prove efficient methods, then we are definitely in good shape for the future. One of the things I like about the current SNP government is their green credentials.
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bhill_mfc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #62 on: September 17, 2012, 04:09 PM »
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All interesting points, looking forward to reading more. Smile

Difficult to actually extricate ownership regarding North Sea oil. Be interesting to see how many £s are invested in the industry from Westminster directly.

As for renewables, great potential but nothing actually proven yet, and SNP have set very ambitious targets regarding energy. If wind and wave (tidal) energy can prove efficient methods, then we are definitely in good shape for the future. One of the things I like about the current SNP government is their green credentials.

I share your positivity with green credentials. One think that cannot be denied in my opinion is that the SNP has come up with some good ideas and isn't scared of a challenge. Westminster (and particularly George Osborne) appears to be terrified of doing anything which doesn't come straight out of the textbook.

Regarding oil, it is widely reported that 95% of all oil fields are in Scottish waters, hence a fair share would be to give Scotland 95% of oil revenues post independence.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #63 on: September 17, 2012, 04:10 PM »
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Well done Fiverings and bhill-mfc.   You saved me a lot of typing.    I would add in freedom to make ouro

own mistakes instead of paying the price for the mistakes of others.

Also who knows what position we would have been in with RBS had we been independent at that point.

It's a red herring from Westminster like the "oil will run out in a few years"   we were fed before the

devolution referendum.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #64 on: September 17, 2012, 04:14 PM »
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Westminster gets back a lot more £s than they put in so we definitely more than pay our way.     
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #65 on: September 17, 2012, 04:17 PM »
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Regarding oil, it is widely reported that 95% of all oil fields are in Scottish waters, hence a fair share would be to give Scotland 95% of oil revenues post independence.

You are disregarding the financial investment of British companies, such as BP, that has been absolutely crucial to extracting the stuff in the first place.

Physical location of assets isn't the only criteria at play here. It's very complicated.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #66 on: September 17, 2012, 04:22 PM »
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Westminster gets back a lot more £s than they put in so we definitely more than pay our way.    

England £7,121
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
Northern Ireland £9,385 (!)

(Public expenditure per person in the UK)

English residents actually seem to get the raw end of the deal in this case. Those statistics are from 2008, by the way, can't find anything newer.

In terms of whether we pay our way or not, I would argue that yes we do, based on the statistics I have seen.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #67 on: September 17, 2012, 04:38 PM »
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BP would still wish to invest - they are in it for the money after all.    What is a British Company?     A company registered in London?                                                                   

It does look like the English taxpayer gets a raw deal.    Cameron should  get rid of Scotland and have more money to spend at home.     He would stand a better chance of

re-election.    Surprised he hasn't worked that out.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #68 on: September 17, 2012, 04:47 PM »
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This is an absolute mammoth PDF with lots of interesting information and opinion on it.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/economic-affairs/ScottishIndependence/scottishindev.pdf
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bhill_mfc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #69 on: September 17, 2012, 05:27 PM »
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England £7,121
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
Northern Ireland £9,385 (!)

(Public expenditure per person in the UK)

English residents actually seem to get the raw end of the deal in this case. Those statistics are from 2008, by the way, can't find anything newer.

In terms of whether we pay our way or not, I would argue that yes we do, based on the statistics I have seen.

These figures are accurate, and it is indeed true that Scotland gains more per head than those in England and in Wales. But what is not often reported is that the amount per head which Scots CONTRIBUTE to HMRC revenues in the first place is also higher. In essence this means that Scots are taxed more per person in the UK than those from England and Wales. I will try and find the figures which back this up later on. Essentially what I am trying to say is that whilst the Barnett formula spends a disproportionate amount on Scots, HMRC also taxes Scots disproportionately as well. Hence, yes, we more than pay our own way.
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Iris
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #70 on: September 17, 2012, 06:01 PM »
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I think I am a very rare breed, I believe in the EU and also an independant Scotland within Europe.  Let me qualify that statement by saying two things firstly, the EU would work if there was less red tape and individual nations would stop pushing their own agenda.  Secondly, we are not seeking independance but the re-instatement of our once independent nation.  In the real world neither is going to happen which to me is a pity as I believe Scotland could gain so much as she has so much to give.  The move towards independence requires a giant leap of faith, a belief in the elected leaders to ensure the protection of us all, there is so much more to consider and absorb in such a short space of time and then to make a valued judgement on the information available from wherever it emanates.  Could it be the fear of the unknown which prevents us from taking the final step or a lack of trust in our leaders.  It was less than 100 years ago Ireland gained her independence and since then she has gone through some good times as well as bad but hasn't the rest of the world?  The financial crisis is not peculiar to the UK, it has affected every other country in the world large or small, rich or poor.  If the financial crisis hadn't happened, would we still think independence was a bad thing?  If the situation in the UK continues on the downward slope will the Scottish people begin to feel that we should try and make a go of things ourselves as the UK government is not helping us reach our own aspirations.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #71 on: September 17, 2012, 09:45 PM »
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I'm with you Iris.    Of course it would require a leap of faith but worth all the risk.    I feel there is more confidence in this country even since devolution and I would love to see that
confidence carry us through to independence.    Unfortunately I don't think it will be in my lifetime.
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Iris
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #72 on: September 17, 2012, 09:49 PM »
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I'm with you Iris.    Of course it would require a leap of faith but worth all the risk.    I feel there is more confidence in this country even since devolution and I would love to see that
confidence carry us through to independence.    Unfortunately I don't think it will be in my lifetime.
I would love to take the risk but my acctions would not be fair on the younger generation who would ultimately be the losers/benefactors of that decision.  Still a person can dream.......like Andy did.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #73 on: September 17, 2012, 09:52 PM »
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The leap of faith IS that they will be benefactors.   
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Iris
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #74 on: September 17, 2012, 09:53 PM »
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^I earnestly wish
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