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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #750 on: December 23, 2012, 01:04 PM »
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Perhaps Aileen if this government listed to what people in Scotland wanted there might be an easier solution to independence. Some people in Scotland want a Federal system and that is what I want and others on MW have said as well.What also should stop is the UK government giving grants to start up business in UK. Hyundi has a factory purpose built just outside Dunfermline  which has remained empty for years. This company were given a lot of cash incentives to come here and pulled out at the last minute. They took the cash and ran. If foreign countries are to set up business in this country they should be told that they will be held to their commitments or face large fines for not keeping their agreements. Also if the country is in such a bad state spending over a billion pounds on a nuclear sub is not going to help. The wall Halls treated their employee was nothing short of betrayal it is obvious they made very  little attempt to find buyers for the company and left employee's no time to try and find alternative work. Yet the Tories have just cut the time that redundancies can be given from 70 days to 45 days so much for "We are all in it together" what trash there is one law for them and it is not the same as for working people. Also most Scots have little or no confidence in the UK Government to them I am afraid we do not count for much. \perhaps it would be better for us to go in a separate direction that stick to the same old formula. The other parties are just as bad why tell me do Labour the Liberals just follow the same old party line as the London parliament.Do they not have minds of their own? no they all follow the party line and we get the same old rubbish spewed out time and time again. We need some new thinking instead of the same old trash. Scotland needs to have more confidence in itself with a new relationship with the rest of Europe and the World.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #751 on: December 23, 2012, 05:06 PM »
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Perhaps Aileen if this government listed to what people in Scotland wanted there might be an easier solution to independence. Some people in Scotland want a Federal system and that is what I want and others on MW have said as well.
If you're referring to the SNP, then I agree with you, but the trouble is that they only seem to hear what they want to hear.  I want a federal system because it's the only thing that makes sense here.  Scotland can then enjoy a good deal of indpendence away from London's influcence whilst still being part of the UK.  It works in other countries such as the US and Australia, so why not in the UK?  Of course I realise that, even if the SNP were to change their minds, Westminster would have to agree to this too, and that is something they obviously do not want to do.  However, my opinion still is (and I could be proved wrong) that, unless and until the SNP see the light, their idea of a totally independent Scotland is extremely unlikely to come to fruition.

I was less than happy though the other day when it was reported that a certain T Blair has committed himself to helping the No campaign, to which news Kenneth Gibson SNP MSP responded: “Tony Blair’s cack-handed intervention at Westminster that he will ‘play a part’ in the ‘No’ campaign is an early Christmas present for ‘Yes’".  Whilst I don't believe that to be entirely true, that man's reputation is so sullied he really should keep his nose out of British politics altogether.  If he plays a big role here, then he and David Cameron between them could well push many undecided voters into voting Yes.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #752 on: December 23, 2012, 05:29 PM »
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I agree with you about Tony Blair I blame him for supporting the Americans in Iraq and then in Afghanistan what a waste of young men who are injured or killed in those wars. When they return home they are treated like sh-t. They are being flung out of the Army and cannot be housed as there are no houses for them or being discharged before they are entitled to their pension. They have fought for their country and then thrown on the garbage heap. You are right Cameron does not care about Scotland all he is interested in is the oil. I get the Times and every day all they do is go over the same old ideas about Scotland they are the one's who will push the Scots to vote for independence. I am also sick and tired about being told I am anti English. I am not anti English but PRO SCOTS and that is the difference.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #753 on: December 23, 2012, 06:50 PM »
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Tony Blair is a man with blood on his hands, and every sane-minded person knows it.  The way he managed to squirm his way out of the Iraq Inquiry was disgraceful, but then he's a lawyer as well as a politician - a pretty formidable combination.  Even so he didn't look exactly comfortable when being questioned.

I agree that the way this country treats its servicemen and women is appalling.  Cameron freely admits it, yet will do nothing to help.  And please anyone spare me this 'fighting for their country' nonsense.  Which country were they fighting for?  Iraq was an invasion and Afghanistan wasn't much better, being as it was the product of a paranoid warmonger in Washington.  9/11 didn't just happen - it was allowed to happen so's he could pursue his 'war on terrorism' against the perceived but amorphous enemy Al-Queda, and Blair was very happy to go along with him.  It speaks for itself that even the British servicemen themselves didn't know, and possibly still don't know, what exactly they were really supposed to be fighting for.  Now the US and the UK are stuck in a pile of sh*t and haven't a clue how to get themselves out of it without losing face.  Meanwhile the people of Afghanistan are suffering because they never asked for this in the first place, and lives, both civilian and military, are being shattered or lost on an almost daily basis.  Anyway rant over! Whistle

I agree with you about the anti-English pro-Scottish thing.  I'm not anti-English per se, although I do find that some English people rub me up the wrong way, but I am proud of being Scottish and so I care very much about what happens to my country.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #754 on: February 10, 2013, 08:40 AM »
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The Scottish government has outlined a possible transition to independence in the event of a "Yes" vote in the autumn 2014 referendum.

Independence day for Scotland would be in March 2016, with the first elections to an independent parliament in May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-21331302

Scotland should remain part of the UK because having two governments looking after its affairs offers "the best of both worlds", David Cameron has said.

The PM said on the No 10 website that he would use arguments of the "head and heart" to keep the UK together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-21394184

2.7 The Scottish Government has indicated that it will set out its views as to
what independence would mean in practice by publishing proposals in a
White Paper in autumn 2013, following its consultation that has already taken
place. The Secretary of State for Scotland has indicated that the UK
Government will undertake a programme of work to evaluate the benefits of
Scotland remaining in the UK both to Scotland and the rest of the UK.


5.41 In the event of a ‘Yes’ vote, there would be a range of issues to be
resolved within the UK and internationally about the terms of independence.
Although we would not expect the terms of independence to be agreed
between the two governments before the vote, clarity about how the terms of
independence will be decided would help voters understand how the
competing claims made by referendum campaigners before the referendum
will be resolved.

5.42 We recommend that the UK and Scottish Governments should
clarify what process will follow the referendum in sufficient detail to
inform people what will happen if most voters vote ‘Yes’ and what will
happen if most voters vote ‘No’.

5.43 We recommend that both Governments should agree a joint position, if
possible, so that voters have access to agreed information about what would
follow the referendum. The alternative - two different explanations - could
cause confusion for voters rather than make things clearer.

5.44 This information would help voters understand what would happen after
the referendum, whatever the outcome, and how any competing claims made
about independence during the campaigns would be resolved.


http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/153691/Referendum-on-independence-for-Scotland-our-advice-on-referendum-question.pdf

Those recommendations are working well, aren't they? confused

Anyway, this is what the Electoral Commission will do:-

Public information: what we will do

5.45 By autumn 2013, we intend to review the state of preparations for the
delivery of the referendum and make a public statement to inform the Scottish
Parliament. We will use this as an opportunity to report on whether or not the
two Governments have been able to agree a joint position on what would
follow the referendum.

5.46 If they have been able to agree a joint position, we will consider whether
that information is appropriate to include in a leaflet about the referendum that
we would expect to send to all households in Scotland, as part of our public
awareness campaign. We have undertaken successful public information
campaigns previously at several elections, including for elections in Scotland
and at the UK and Wales referendums in 2011.

5.47 The leaflet would also contain information about how to register to vote
and how to vote. Our ‘how to vote’ information will include how to vote by post
or in person, including how to complete the ballot paper; and polling station
opening hours.

5.48 We will ensure that the content of our leaflet is subject to rigorous
testing, including with potential voters. The leaflet will be part of our wider
public awareness campaign, including television, press and radio advertising,
all of which would also be subject to user testing.

[ Last edit by Bevc February 10, 2013, 08:54 AM ] IP Logged
bhill_mfc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #755 on: February 10, 2013, 11:14 AM »
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Independence will be the best thing Scots will ever be able to to for their country. The problem is there are far too many people scared to make the leap of faith. Scaremongering from Unionist parties is the primary reason. There would be uncertainty economically if we vote Yes, but it isn't like we have any economic certainty in the UK anyway, is it?
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #756 on: February 10, 2013, 11:16 AM »
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There's no economic certainty in Europe either bhill_mfc. no
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #757 on: February 10, 2013, 01:59 PM »
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It could not be much worse than it is now. This government (UK) does not give a toss about Scotland. Ill tell you why, Cameron knows that the tories will never get seats in Scotland. They at present have 1 seat from Scotland in the (UK) parliament. Therefore if the Scots vote yes he will be rid of us and the tories would get a majority in England. He is also burying his head in the sand and refuses to take part in talks about independence and the person doing the all the talk for them is a Lib Dem Michael Moore, who has no power at all.If they will not talk about it now when will they. A lot needs to be discussed and they are quite happy to let it all hang out. Just shows how well prepared they are if Scots vote yes. They are quite happy to make plans for the rail services in England with high speed trains being promised to Leeds and Manchester which is apparently in the North of England. I thought the North of England was Newcastle and Cumbria. Scotland did not even get a mention. As I have said previously every thing seems to be centered for London and the south east. For us to get a modern high speed trains we will have to do it for ourselves for at the moment nothing is planned for Scotland.
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Connor
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #758 on: February 10, 2013, 02:03 PM »
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Scottish politics is a wormhole of indecency and regret. End of.
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Elly
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #759 on: February 10, 2013, 02:05 PM »
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It could not be much worse than it is now. This government (UK) does not give a toss about Scotland. Ill tell you why, Cameron knows that the tories will never get seats in Scotland. They at present have 1 seat from Scotland in the (UK) parliament. Therefore if the Scots vote yes he will be rid of us and the tories would get a majority in England. He is also burying his head in the sand and refuses to take part in talks about independence and the person doing the all the talk for them is a Lib Dem Michael Moore, who has no power at all.If they will not talk about it now when will they. A lot needs to be discussed and they are quite happy to let it all hang out. Just shows how well prepared they are if Scots vote yes. They are quite happy to make plans for the rail services in England with high speed trains being promised to Leeds and Manchester which is apparently in the North of England. I thought the North of England was Newcastle and Cumbria. Scotland did not even get a mention. As I have said previously every thing seems to be centered for London and the south east. For us to get a modern high speed trains we will have to do it for ourselves for at the moment nothing is planned for Scotland.
I'm hoping my boy can make a wee difference, but I doubt it.  A year in politics and he is already fairly disillusioned.  He joined a party because he has a social conscience - not because he has a big ego.  As far as I can see that's not enough these days.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #760 on: February 10, 2013, 02:20 PM »
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I wish him all the best I think politics are ruled by big business and cadre's in parliament. It would be great if there were more independent people in parliament. I sometimes think people who do want to contribute to the country and do have a social conscience are drowned out by the whips. Somethings will never change.
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Elly
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #761 on: February 10, 2013, 02:22 PM »
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I wish him all the best I think politics are ruled by big business and cadre's in parliament. It would be great if there were more independent people in parliament. I sometimes think people who do want to contribute to the country and do have a social conscience are drowned out by the whips. Somethings will never change.
Yup.  One or two voices will never make a big difference, unfortunately.  It's such a pity for those who really care. 
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #762 on: February 10, 2013, 06:33 PM »
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Scottish politics is a wormhole of indecency and regret. End of.
Eyebrow raise.  So the Westminster government is a haven of purity and positivity? Rolling Eyes   At least the Scottish government has done a lot for Scotland, which is more than can be said for Westminster, who's done f*** all for Britain as a whole - which doesn't mean that I'm in favour of independence, just more powers for Holyrood.

I spent half hour on the phone the other day with a member of the SNP who was trying to convince me that this was the way forward.  Not only did she keep repeating herself like a broken record but she couldn't give me a single satisfactory answer to questions I put to her when I asked for clarification about a few things.  It seems though that all will be revealed 'in the autumn of this year'.  The number of those who initially were in favour of independence is falling, so it's a bit late that, surely, if the 'Yes' campaign hopes to entice the strayed sheep back to the fold and convince undecided voters that this is the way they should vote?

Also this idea that independence can take place so soon after the Referendum should Scots vote in favour of it is nonsense.  Do they seriously think that everything can be resolved in what is really a very short space of time where so many issues would be involved?
[ Last edit by Aileen February 10, 2013, 06:41 PM ] IP Logged
Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #763 on: February 10, 2013, 07:25 PM »
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It could not be much worse than it is now. This government (UK) does not give a toss about Scotland. Ill tell you why, Cameron knows that the tories will never get seats in Scotland. They at present have 1 seat from Scotland in the (UK) parliament. Therefore if the Scots vote yes he will be rid of us and the tories would get a majority in England. He is also burying his head in the sand and refuses to take part in talks about independence and the person doing the all the talk for them is a Lib Dem Michael Moore, who has no power at all.If they will not talk about it now when will they. A lot needs to be discussed and they are quite happy to let it all hang out. Just shows how well prepared they are if Scots vote yes. They are quite happy to make plans for the rail services in England with high speed trains being promised to Leeds and Manchester which is apparently in the North of England. I thought the North of England was Newcastle and Cumbria. Scotland did not even get a mention. As I have said previously every thing seems to be centered for London and the south east. For us to get a modern high speed trains we will have to do it for ourselves for at the moment nothing is planned for Scotland.

I confess that I know very little about the high speed rail network proposals but what I have read is that it's going to be dealt with in 2 phases and that north of Leeds and Manchester (ie Cumbria & Scotland) would be in that 2nd phase.  Newcastle is already on a high speed line - east coast mainline.

I also found this:-

Construction along the line is due to start in 2017 and be completed by 2025. The first train services will run between London and Birmingham from 2026.

Which would mean, according to the SNP view of things, after independence, so Scotland's rail network would not be a 'UK' issue.

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/developing-a-new-high-speed-rail-network

Scottish politics is a wormhole of indecency and regret. End of.

Slight editing there.
[ Last edit by Bevc February 10, 2013, 07:34 PM ] IP Logged
Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #764 on: February 10, 2013, 07:37 PM »
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Bevc I know its not the right thread but I was thinking about the watch question again. The correct name is Solar waveceptor watches controlled by signals from the atomic clock. Casio is not the only one but are probably the cheapest. I checked ebay again there are a lot with an analog face not just digital.
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