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Poll
Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #780 on: February 10, 2013, 09:59 PM »
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The image of the SNP running a country all on their own is alarming, to say the least.

No more alarming than Cameron, Osborne et al.
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Elly
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #781 on: February 10, 2013, 10:07 PM »
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Well, I'd just appreciate if you explain what you mean?

It reads like a soundbite picked up from Question Time.
No, Andrew - you just want an argument, and I'm not playing.  Go and pick on someone else.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #782 on: February 10, 2013, 10:16 PM »
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No, Andrew - you just want an argument, and I'm not playing.  Go and pick on someone else.

No, I wanted to understand your point and then possibly DEBATE it (the point of this whole thread which now stretches to 53 pages)
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Elly
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #783 on: February 10, 2013, 10:21 PM »
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No, I wanted to understand your point and then possibly DEBATE it (the point of this whole thread which now stretches to 53 pages)
Having been at the mercy of your DEBATES - I'll pass.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #784 on: February 10, 2013, 10:23 PM »
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Name one debate where you've been at my 'mercy'.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #785 on: February 10, 2013, 11:59 PM »
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The main reasons I will be voting 'No' to independence as it stands is because I have yet to be convinced by SNP proposals on our direction as a sovereign state, and also the absolutely fundamental issue of currency.


I think that currency is a big issue.  I can understand why Scotland wouldn't want to take on the Euro as an independent state but isn't that the whole issue about the UK and Europe - they want the UK to take it on and share their burden - and the SNP keep on insisting that they will be part of Europe but only where it suits (like the current government).  So there are areas that Westminster and the SNP are in agreement without them saying that.  confused
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #786 on: February 11, 2013, 02:39 AM »
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Unarguably the only sensible thing the SNP has done so far -

The Scottish government has agreed to change the wording of its independence referendum question, after concerns it may lead people to vote 'Yes'.

SNP ministers wanted to ask voters the yes/no question: "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?" in autumn 2014.

The wording of the question will now be altered to: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

The change was suggested by the Electoral Commission watchdog.



I think that currency is a big issue.  I can understand why Scotland wouldn't want to take on the Euro as an independent state but isn't that the whole issue about the UK and Europe - they want the UK to take it on and share their burden - and the SNP keep on insisting that they will be part of Europe but only where it suits (like the current government).  So there are areas that Westminster and the SNP are in agreement without them saying that.  confused
The whole issue of membership of the EU if Scotland becomes independent is still far from clear, and the SNP are awaiting yet another legal opinion, which they should receive this week.


One thing which really puzzles me though is this:  According to statistics -

Some 400,000 people from elsewhere in the UK reside in Scotland and they will receive a vote in the referendum.

Nearly 800,000 Scots live in other parts of the UK but they will not receive a vote in this poll.


True, there are a some non-Scots who have chosen to come and live here (mainly in the northern part of the country), but there are many who live here for various reasons, e.g. because this is where their job has taken them, or they're married to a Scot, and I don't see why they should be allowed to vote for the future of a country which isn't theirs by birth - although I suspect probably many of them won't vote anyway because they really don't care, unless, of course, they're like an English friend who has lived here for many years (job) but who is worried about what will happen to him if Scotland becomes independent, i.e. will he be regarded as a foreigner who will have to apply for Scottish citizenship and possibly a work permit?

However, whilst there could be a few Scots who have chosen to live elsewhere in the UK, the same job/marriage/etc situation applies to the 800,000 who won't be allowed to vote on the future of their homeland but who have strong feelings about independence, or otherwise, and who would be only too happy to vote in the referendum.  For reasons of expense and logistics this couldn't be extended to the many ex-pats who live or work abroad, but it seems only fair to give Scots living elsewhere in the UK the chance to have their say by means of a postal vote.  Also I'm sure many of them are concerned that the same could apply to them as could apply to my friend if Scotland became independent, only in reverse.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #787 on: February 11, 2013, 03:33 AM »
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Would the International students at Uni have the right to vote too?

I read somewhere that Glasgow University are having a poll this month search

http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_257069_en.html
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #788 on: February 11, 2013, 03:42 AM »
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Would the International students at Uni have the right to vote too?

I read somewhere that Glasgow University are having a poll this month search

http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_257069_en.html
No, is my answer, and that applies to students from outside Scotland in general because they're only at Uni for 3/4 years, although if they want to debate the issue and vote in a mock referendum, then I have no problem with that, although Glasgow Uni will need to set the question in its new form if they want to get a fair response.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #789 on: February 11, 2013, 03:53 AM »
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Think

Under the terms of the 2010 Draft Bill, the following people would be entitled to vote in the referendum:[15]

British citizens resident in Scotland;
Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland;
citizens of other European Union countries resident in Scotland;
members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland;
Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the armed forces or with Her Majesty's Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.
The Scottish Government is proposing to reduce the voting age for the referendum from 18 to 16, as it is SNP policy is to reduce the voting age for all elections in Scotland.[15][29][30] As part of the agreement between the Scottish and British governments, it is likely that 16 and 17 year olds will be allowed to vote in the referendum.[29] People in the United Kingdom are allowed to work and pay taxes when they are 16 or 17, but in England and Wales parental permission is required for marriage or serving in the armed forces.[29]

In January 2012, Labour MSP Elaine Murray led a debate arguing that the franchise should be extended to Scots living outside Scotland.[31] This was opposed by the Scottish Government, who argued that it would greatly increase the complexity of the referendum and cited evidence from the United Nations Human Rights Committee that a referendum based on criteria other than residence would be queried by other nations.[31] In the House of Lords, Baroness Symons argued that the rest of the United Kingdom should be allowed to vote on Scottish independence, on the grounds that it would affect the whole country. This argument was rejected by the British government, with Lord Wallace pointing to the fact that only two of 11 referenda since 1973 had been across all of the United Kingdom.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014#Date_and_eligibility
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tennis_girl
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #790 on: February 11, 2013, 04:43 AM »
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Unarguably the only sensible thing the SNP has done so far -

The Scottish government has agreed to change the wording of its independence referendum question, after concerns it may lead people to vote 'Yes'.

SNP ministers wanted to ask voters the yes/no question: "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?" in autumn 2014.

The wording of the question will now be altered to: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

The change was suggested by the Electoral Commission watchdog.


The whole issue of membership of the EU if Scotland becomes independent is still far from clear, and the SNP are awaiting yet another legal opinion, which they should receive this week.


One thing which really puzzles me though is this:  According to statistics -

Some 400,000 people from elsewhere in the UK reside in Scotland and they will receive a vote in the referendum.

Nearly 800,000 Scots live in other parts of the UK but they will not receive a vote in this poll.


True, there are a some non-Scots who have chosen to come and live here (mainly in the northern part of the country), but there are many who live here for various reasons, e.g. because this is where their job has taken them, or they're married to a Scot, and I don't see why they should be allowed to vote for the future of a country which isn't theirs by birth - although I suspect probably many of them won't vote anyway because they really don't care, unless, of course, they're like an English friend who has lived here for many years (job) but who is worried about what will happen to him if Scotland becomes independent, i.e. will he be regarded as a foreigner who will have to apply for Scottish citizenship and possibly a work permit?

However, whilst there could be a few Scots who have chosen to live elsewhere in the UK, the same job/marriage/etc situation applies to the 800,000 who won't be allowed to vote on the future of their homeland but who have strong feelings about independence, or otherwise, and who would be only too happy to vote in the referendum.  For reasons of expense and logistics this couldn't be extended to the many ex-pats who live or work abroad, but it seems only fair to give Scots living elsewhere in the UK the chance to have their say by means of a postal vote.  Also I'm sure many of them are concerned that the same could apply to them as could apply to my friend if Scotland became independent, only in reverse.

Why does it matter whether or not they were born in that particular country? They live in Scotland, it affects them as well.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #791 on: February 11, 2013, 10:26 AM »
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Why does it matter whether or not they were born in that particular country? They live in Scotland, it affects them as well.

Residency gives you a vote.    Quite right too.    I think your friend, Aileen, should follow the logic of that and realise he is not going to be treated like a foreigner.     
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #792 on: February 11, 2013, 12:22 PM »
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I read the Times newspaper but I am no tory. In nearly every edition of the paper there are articles about the upcoming referendum. They keep banging on about Scotland becoming independent. If they continue this it is my belief that all it will do is to make people here angry and push people into voting yes. I think some people are under the impression that Scotland is a colony and that we should be grateful to pick up the crumbs from the bountiful UK government. If they keep going on that we should be grateful for that they are sadly mistaken. People forget that we were once an independent country with our own legal system and so on. Scots are not insular and have traveled all over the world to settle in those countries and contributed a great deal to them. If this present UK government wants Scots to remain as part of the UK they should think about a federal system where Scots would govern themselves apart from defence and foreign policy. That is the answer to the question if they are so thick and cannot accept this then eventually Scots will vote yes to full independence.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #793 on: February 11, 2013, 01:36 PM »
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I don't think Scots will vote for independence Lb.    I think it will be a case of the devil you know.   Flower of Scotland is correct in that we will not see their like again and am finding "but we can still rise now" a bit embarrassing as I don't think we will.    Neither do I want defence and foreign policy left with Westminster as I think they are very bad at both.
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #794 on: February 11, 2013, 02:49 PM »
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The way the this referendum is going it looks as though they think the Scots contribute nothing to the UK. It makes me angry to think that is the way we are perceived. Like last weeks Question time about radioactive waste originally it was supposed to be going to Cumbria but it was found that the rocks would leak radiation.So some smart arse in the audience shouted out send it to Scotland I am beginning to think people think that is what we deserve. It will always be so and I cannot see it changing, if we do not speak up for ourselves we will always be at a disadvantage. The UK government is trying so hard to scare people to accepting the way things are. It is up to Scots to try and change things for the better.

 


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[ Last edit by Littlebuddha February 11, 2013, 02:57 PM ] IP Logged
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