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Question:  If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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Sir Panda
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Misunderstood genius.

Re: Scottish politics « Reply #825 on: February 13, 2013, 10:27 PM »
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You just can't help yourself, can you?

No, I really can't, you're beyond parody.

Quote
I'm not understanding the 'Glenn Close' reference - would you care to explain?

I've just heard that you have a strong lust for Dalmatian fur coats, that's all.
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Elly
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #826 on: February 13, 2013, 10:30 PM »
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^ Didn't take long for it to result in insults. My work here is done. 
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Elena
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #827 on: February 13, 2013, 10:37 PM »
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Phil is actually backing up most of his assertions with solid fact and evidence, unlike the vast majority of people in this thread. Some of whom prefer romantic ideology and bluster.


I think you might be being a bit unfair to the "vast majority of people on this thread" - not sure, would have to check back.

I'm a bit bemused by this today on the BBC Scotland Politics website though: Scottish independence: Word 'separate' banned by Commons

A row has broken out at Westminster after parliamentary ­authorities banned the use of the word "separate" in a Commons debate on independence.

The move by House of Commons clerks in the wake of SNP protests prompted Labour to cancel a debate on the future of Royal Mail in Scotland.

Labour said it would attempt to reschedule the debate, tabled by its MP Iain McKenzie.

The SNP sees the word "separate" as pejorative.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-21444780


Another view: House Of Commons clerks decreed the use of the pejorative term “separation” to describe independence to be – well, to be pejorative – and therefore inappropriately neutral for a debate in the house. They amended the title of a Labour debate from “The Royal Mail in a separate Scotland” to the fair, accurate and inoffensive “The Future of the Royal Mail in Scotland”. So far so trivial, right?

Astonishingly, Labour responded by cancelling the debate entirely, in a fit of pique at not being able to use what the clerks had described as a “leading” and “impartial” [sic] title for it. In essence, this highly-paid group of adult men and women charged with (and handsomely remunerated for) conducting the United Kingdom’s political discourse announced that it was their ball and they were taking it and going home.
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-giga-lie/

"Separate" pejorative? Really?

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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #828 on: February 13, 2013, 10:39 PM »
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I think you might be being a bit unfair to the "vast majority of people on this thread" - not sure, would have to check back.

No, not really, I'm probably guilty of it myself, I'm hoping to do some extensive research on the economics this summer once more information has been made available. Phil is the only person on this thread who seems learned to a high degree in the matter.
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Elena
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #829 on: February 13, 2013, 10:43 PM »
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No, not really, I'm probably guilty of it myself, I'm hoping to do some extensive research on the economics this summer once more information has been made available. Phil is the only person on this thread who seems learned to a high degree in the matter.

OK fair enough, but how do you find figures that can be trusted? It seems an impossible job to me.

 
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Sir Panda
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #830 on: February 13, 2013, 10:45 PM »
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OK fair enough, but how do you find figures that can be trusted? It seems an impossible job to me.


I find it difficult to find reliable figures, because as I'm sure we're all aware, different figures are spun in different ways for political argument. It's hard to find studies that are completely independent (pun not intended)

Looking at several sets of data and choosing a median is probably one way to try and decipher it all.

A lot of this debate, economically at least, will be centred on the longevity and ownership of the North Sea and oil production - I think that's an area where there is mountains of information available.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #831 on: February 13, 2013, 11:20 PM »
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^ Didn't take long for it to result in insults. My work here is done. 
Again? lol  See you soon, Elly!
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #832 on: February 13, 2013, 11:32 PM »
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I find it difficult to find reliable figures, because as I'm sure we're all aware, different figures are spun in different ways for political argument. It's hard to find studies that are completely independent (pun not intended)

Looking at several sets of data and choosing a median is probably one way to try and decipher it all.

A lot of this debate, economically at least, will be centred on the longevity and ownership of the North Sea and oil production - I think that's an area where there is mountains of information available.

Take the best and worst facts and figures from both sides - bin them- look at the middle - apply some "romantic ideology" which shouldn't be sneered at -  add a large dose of cynicism - remember the quote about three kinds of lies - decision.

PS    The vast majority on  this thread are noes.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #833 on: February 14, 2013, 02:12 AM »
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I find it difficult to find reliable figures, because as I'm sure we're all aware, different figures are spun in different ways for political argument. It's hard to find studies that are completely independent (pun not intended)

That's what I've found when I've been looking at things - lots of conflicting information out there confused

One of the things I was interested in knowing, was should independence go ahead, that would open the rUK up to take up free spaces at Scottish universities (as per EU dictate provided that all went through too), so will they be limiting places available to non-Scottish students? Think  I realise that this is nothing compared to the complexities of pensions, debt and assests.

Am I right in thinking that it's only the SNP pushing for independence?  None of the other parties want this?

Anyone out there that didn't vote SNP want independence?  Just looking at the electoral vote for 2011 would show that more people were against the SNP, it's just that they got the majority vote.  Think
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Fiverings
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #834 on: February 14, 2013, 10:12 AM »
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T

Am I right in thinking that it's only the SNP pushing for independence?  None of the other parties want this?

Anyone out there that didn't vote SNP want independence?  Just looking at the electoral vote for 2011 would show that more people were against the SNP, it's just that they got the majority vote.  Think

As far as I recall the Greens and the SSP are both in the independence camp.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #835 on: February 14, 2013, 11:35 AM »
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And our lovely Independent, straight talking Margo MacDonald.    She was on Newsnight last night laughing about the way Michael Moore and Alastair Darling are such harbingers of doom.    She said "They're telling you it'll rain every day, you'll hae nothin' to eat and nae coal to put on the fire".    She made it clear that she is no longer SNP but 100% behind independence.   My favourite politician.   
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #836 on: February 14, 2013, 01:14 PM »
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The no campain seem to think that scaremongering will put people of voting yes. The times is a mouthpiece for this UK government every day in life they have articles trying to scare the Scottish people into not voting yes.
Yesterday they had Michael Moore and the one tory Mp in Scotland and Alaister Darling reading out a bill about Scottish Finances. It is hysterical Crawford Beveridge who helped write the report turned around and told them they were wrong. He and others told them that Scotland was quite capable of sustaining the economy. This morning more articles saying that 18-24 year old's would probably vote yes because of the UK policy with benefits. This will also affect people all over the UK not Just Scotland when people are finding it hard to make ends meet this UK government are driving down wages and increasing the costs of living.If the tories and labour party in Scotland have nothing to say of any real consequence then they deserve to be beaten. Too many of their policies are being directed by the Westminster government then they will never be in power in Scotland. I have suggested that a Federal System in UK would work but have been told it would not work certain people should make up their minds one way or another.I was told that the Scottish government would not be able to control corporation tax. This would encourage firms to set up in Scotland. Perhaps this is the answer but we would have to wait and see.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #837 on: February 14, 2013, 07:27 PM »
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As far as I recall the Greens and the SSP are both in the independence camp.

Thanks.  I didn't know that. 
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #838 on: February 14, 2013, 07:36 PM »
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The no campain seem to think that scaremongering will put people of voting yes. The times is a mouthpiece for this UK government every day in life they have articles trying to scare the Scottish people into not voting yes.
Yesterday they had Michael Moore and the one tory Mp in Scotland and Alaister Darling reading out a bill about Scottish Finances. It is hysterical Crawford Beveridge who helped write the report turned around and told them they were wrong. He and others told them that Scotland was quite capable of sustaining the economy. This morning more articles saying that 18-24 year old's would probably vote yes because of the UK policy with benefits. This will also affect people all over the UK not Just Scotland when people are finding it hard to make ends meet this UK government are driving down wages and increasing the costs of living.If the tories and labour party in Scotland have nothing to say of any real consequence then they deserve to be beaten. Too many of their policies are being directed by the Westminster government then they will never be in power in Scotland. I have suggested that a Federal System in UK would work but have been told it would not work certain people should make up their minds one way or another.I was told that the Scottish government would not be able to control corporation tax. This would encourage firms to set up in Scotland. Perhaps this is the answer but we would have to wait and see.

Like I said, I think that both sides should list pro's and con's but that's not happening.

I'm slightly confused, do you mean Crawford and Boyle's report on legal separation?  I think Crawford did say that the time scale that SNP are quoting is achievable, which does go against the UK government's line.

Crawford Beveridge normally does financial reports for the Scottish government.  I haven't read anything about what you've mentioned and I apologise if I'm wrong.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #839 on: February 15, 2013, 04:11 AM »
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I think I may have found the article that you are talking about LB.

I will have a better read when I get home.

Was this the article:-

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3685417.ece

nah I don't think this is it.


[ Last edit by Bevc February 15, 2013, 05:27 AM ] IP Logged
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