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Scottish politics

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invisibleman18
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #915 on: April 28, 2013, 10:59 PM »
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They also said on the news quiz that if Scotland keep the pound and the royal family and not build a border, is that not the same as what is happening already anyway? What actually changes?

Regarding Scottish notes, I withdrew 200 pounds from an ATM in Fort William in 2009 without knowing the notes would be different and didn't have any trouble using them anywhere in England. To be fair I think I must have used a reasonable chunk of it in the north (in places like Liverpool) on the way back to London so they are probably more used to seeing them than down south.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #916 on: April 29, 2013, 01:06 AM »
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The Bank of England website explains the situation http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/s_ni_faq.aspx 

As a retired bank cashier, I remember being quite careful when presented with Scottish and Irish notes.  It's very easy to spot a forged English note - not from the look of it, but from the feel of it - the raised print across the top of the note and of course you cannot tear through the metal strip.  As for trading with S&I notes, my understanding was always that it was ok to accept them, but if you present a £20 note to purchase an item for £10, then only an English £10 note can be given as change.  Said S&I notes must then be paid in to a Bank as deposit or exchange.

Ripping open a £5,000 pack of brand new notes was a lovely feel and aroma.  However, having to count out the same amount of notes paid in by a guy who worked in a local pet food factory where they packed raw tripe was vile.
Thanks for all that FCR - including the anecdote. Smile

I must admit that I had never seen an Irish bank note until about a year ago when I was on two occasions given an Ulster Bank one as part of my change in my local supermarket.  Now, whilst I was sure that Tesco is above board in these matters, I refused to accept it, mainly because I was concerned that other shops might not do so - so I suppose I shouldn't complain about people in England being suspicious of Scottish notes!


Why on earth does Scotland have different notes when we all have the same currency? The mind boggles.  Rolling Eyes
Because bank notes are issued by banks and not the Royal Mint.  Therefore Scottish and Ulster banks issue their own bank notes.  Wales can't do the same because it isn't a separate country like Scotland and NI and so doesn't have it's own banks anyway.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #917 on: April 29, 2013, 07:36 AM »
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Bank of England notes are the only banknotes that are legal tender in England and Wales. Scottish and Northern Ireland banknotes are not legal tender anywhere, and Jersey, Guernsey and Manx banknotes are only legal tender in their respective jurisdictions. The fact that these banknotes are not legal tender in the UK does not however mean that they are illegal under English law, and creditors and traders may accept them if they so choose. Traders may, on the other hand, choose not to accept banknotes as payment as contract law across the United Kingdom allows parties not to engage in a transaction at the point of payment if they choose not to.[17]

In Scotland and Northern Ireland, no banknotes, not even ones issued in those countries, are legal tender.[10] They have a similar legal standing to cheques or debit cards, in that their acceptability as a means of payment is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved, although Scots law requires any reasonable offer for settlement of a debt to be accepted.

Until 1988, the Bank of England issued one pound notes, and these notes did have legal tender status in Scotland and Northern Ireland while they existed. The Currency and Bank Notes Act 1954 defined Bank of England notes of less than £5 in value as legal tender in Scotland.[22] Since the English £1 note was removed from circulation in 1988, this leaves a legal curiosity in Scots law whereby there is no paper legal tender in Scotland. The UK Treasury has proposed extending legal tender status to Scottish banknotes.[citation needed] The proposal has been opposed by Scottish nationalists who claim it would reduce the independence of the Scottish banking sector.[23]

Most of the notes issued by the note-issuing banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland have to be backed by Bank of England notes held by the issuing bank. The combined size of these banknote issues is well over a billion pounds. To make it possible for the note-issuing banks to hold equivalent values in Bank of England notes, the Bank of England issues special notes with denominations of one million pounds ("Giants") and one hundred million pounds ("Titans") for internal use by the other banks.

Bank notes are no longer redeemable in gold and the Bank of England will only redeem sterling banknotes for more sterling banknotes or coins. The contemporary sterling is a fiat currency which is backed only by securities; in essence IOUs from the Treasury that represent future income from the taxation of the population. Some economists term this "currency by trust", as sterling relies on the faith of the user rather than any physical specie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_pound_sterling
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #918 on: April 29, 2013, 07:39 AM »
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No I did not make that up boogers I see you are back to being your usual obnoxious self.

Wikipedia says gold no longer used.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #919 on: April 29, 2013, 07:44 AM »
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During the public debate leading up to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the question of Scotland's future currency was discussed. While the SNP have advocated a currency union between an independent Scotland and the remnant of the United Kingdom,[41] HM Treasury issued a statement in April 2013 stating that the present relationship with the Bank of England could be changed after independence, with the result that Scottish banks may lose the ability to issue banknotes backed by Bank of England funds.

From the same wikipedia article Think
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #920 on: April 29, 2013, 11:09 AM »
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Because Scottish banks have always printed their own notes for years and why not ? The founder of the bank of England was a Scotsman.
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ChrisMac
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #921 on: April 29, 2013, 11:19 AM »
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That is so true, LB. Very Happy
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #922 on: April 29, 2013, 11:27 AM »
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Are you talking about co-founder William Paterson? Advocate of the Union between England and Scotland too apparently.

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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #923 on: April 29, 2013, 11:33 AM »
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To be honest Bevc I don't know if he did advocate the Union between England and Scotland. As far as I remember the union came about because some of the so called nobility in Scotland were bribed by the English government. The English also blocked the Scots from trading outwith Scotland forcing them to accept the terms of the Union. Sounds familiar eg Mr George Osbourne.
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Bevc
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #924 on: April 29, 2013, 11:51 AM »
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I don't know a lot about the treaty but it would seem that the failure of the Darien Scheme and the money lost in that was a contributing factor to the agreement coming about.

William Paterson was involved in that scheme too.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #925 on: April 29, 2013, 12:29 PM »
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Yes you are correct about Darien but that is not good enough to use as an excuse about Scotland joining the union. Corrupt members of the Scottish nobility who sold Scotland down the river. The ordinary population were not happy about it. The English got the best of the bargin many Scots did not like it as Scotland when it was independent traded with many countries outwith the UK.
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #926 on: April 30, 2013, 04:27 AM »
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Yes you are correct about Darien but that is not good enough to use as an excuse about Scotland joining the union. Corrupt members of the Scottish nobility who sold Scotland down the river. The ordinary population were not happy about it. The English got the best of the bargin many Scots did not like it as Scotland when it was independent traded with many countries outwith the UK.
I'm fed up hearing that England got the best of bargain as a result of the Union.  I've looked at a lot of the documents in the Scottish archives relating to the negotiations between the commissioners appointed by both parliaments and can assure you that Scotland was not 'sold for English gold' by corrupt nobility.

The Scots made it very plain that we be allowed to keep our own church and our legal and education systems, and there was quite a big argument about Scottish representation at Westminster, both in the Lords and in the Commons, in which we finally got our own way.  The treaty also gave Scotland the same trading and navigation rights as England.

In addition, the Equivalent, which gave rise to the notion that we were bought off by England, was a cash payment of £400,000 to Scotland as compensation for sharing the responsibility for England's national debt of £18 million, given that Scotland had been bled financially dry by the failed Darien Scheme - Darien having turned out to be an insect infested swamp where those who did try to settle there were constantly in fear of attacks from Spain who claimed rights to the territory.

There were certainly plenty of protests, including a number of riots, from the ordinary people, most of them being whipped up by radical Presbyterians, but after only a year many people, particularly the traders, were seeing the benefits of the Union and continued to do so.  In fact England ultimately gained very little from the Union apart from securing the Protestant succession to the British throne and the right to levy a handful of taxes on certain goods.

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Littlebuddha
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #927 on: April 30, 2013, 10:26 AM »
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Tell me why the English built all those forts in the highlands. They were built to keep the local population in check and that is the only reason. I still maintain that the ordinary population were against the union martial law would have been Invoked causing the deaths of many people. As Robert Burns said "We're bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of Rogues in a nation".
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Aileen
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #928 on: April 30, 2013, 05:14 PM »
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Tell me why the English built all those forts in the highlands. They were built to keep the local population in check and that is the only reason.
Three, to be exact - only one of which, Fort William (named after William of Orange) was built before the Union, Fort George and Fort Augustus being built after the 1715 Jacobite uprising.  Whilst they were indeed there to keep the local population, i.e. the Highland clans, under control, this move was welcomed by the Lowland Scots because they were fed up with raids and pillaging carried out on them by the Highlanders who managed on several occasions to get as far as Edinburgh.  Also a great number of Highlanders were Roman Catholics who wanted to see the exiled Catholic James II back on the throne - something the Lowlanders, who were mainly Presbyterians and Episcopalians, did not want and so favoured the Protestant succession.

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I still maintain that the ordinary population were against the union martial law would have been Invoked causing the deaths of many people. .
I did actually say in my post that many of the ordinary population were against the Union, this being largely due to the fact that they didn't really know or understand what was going on between the Scottish and English Parliaments, which was hardly surprising given that the only way news could be spread then was by means of pamphlets - and there was no shortage of these, all of them containing conflicting information about the Union which had been picked up second or even third hand, because in those days there was no such thing as parliamentary reporters either in Scotland or England and so the only reports came from people who had managed somehow to sneak in and hide (up chimneys was a favourite place) and listen to the debates.   There were many riots, something which caused the authorities to declare meetings of large numbers of people a punishable offence.  This, however, didn't stop serious rioting from taking place in Edinburgh whilst the negotiations were in progress, and on at least one occasion the lives of members of parliament, mainly the nobility, were under threat and Parliament House itself invaded.  The local militia were called upon to deal with these, and no doubt deaths did occur, but the amount of bloodshed was surprisingly little in the circumstances.

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As Robert Burns said "We're bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of Rogues in a nation"
I have great admiration for Burns but he too, like the majority of the population, was pretty ignorant as to what was going on, and like so many others pounced on the Equivalent for his pronouncement.

As for the parcel of Rogues statement, I don't deny that some of the nobility were quite keen to further their own ambitions, but the main reason behind the Union was that Scotland was a seriously impoverished country, something which was aggravated by the ill-advised and ill-fated Darien Scheme, and so a little help from England was necessary, particularly regarding trading.  There had been three previous attempts to start union negotiations in the years following the 1603 Regal Union, but all had failed due to lack of interest on both sides.  Now it was the Scottish Parliament which was pushing for it for the reason stated.  Also not all the nobility were in favour of the Union.  In fact Scotland's premier Duke, the Duke of Hamilton, was violently opposed to it, although even he was quick to change his mind after the Treaty was in place.
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Fiverings
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Re: Scottish politics « Reply #929 on: April 30, 2013, 06:45 PM »
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No.   She is above politics.   
  Aye right. Why was she at Thatcher's funeral?
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