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Author Topic: Who created us?  (Read 5959 times)
davidB
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #165 on: May 18, 2008, 03:09 PM »
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Oh this is a fun thread.........

I believe in the Big Bang, quantum theory, relativity... I'm the biggest 17 year old proponent of string theory that you will ever meet, and yet, I still believe in God.

Now Clydey, I haven't been antagonistic to you so I hope you won't be antagonistic to me when I ask this question: Can you direct my attention to a scientific paper citing the "mountain" of evidence that, according to you, so firmly supports evolution?
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #166 on: May 18, 2008, 03:10 PM »
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Ding ding!
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AL1874
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #167 on: May 18, 2008, 03:11 PM »
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Sharia Law is not based purely on the Qu'ran, it also has certain laws which derived from principles established by Islamic lawyers and judges.

Therefore if they are wrong in their interpration it does mean the religion is wrong.

Yes they can justify Barbarism but it does not mean that it is keeping with their faith, any number of vehicles could be used for this purpose nationalism for example, it is not the perserve of Religion.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #168 on: May 18, 2008, 03:11 PM »
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Oh this is a fun thread.........

I believe in the Big Bang, quantum theory, relativity... I'm the biggest 17 year old proponent of string theory that you will ever meet, and yet, I still believe in God.

Now Clydey, I haven't been antagonistic to you so I hope you won't be antagonistic to me when I ask this question: Can you direct my attention to a scientific paper citing the "mountain" of evidence that, according to you, so firmly supports evolution?


A single scientific paper?  Scientific articles don't generally cover all the evidence.  It is a cumulative effect.  Some papers discuss some evidence, while others discuss other evidence.  Check the links I've posted in this thread.  Those should answer most of your questions.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #169 on: May 18, 2008, 03:14 PM »
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Sharia Law is not based purely on the Qu'ran, it also has certain laws which derived from principles established by Islamic lawyers and judges.

Therefore if they are wrong in their interpration it does mean the religion is wrong.

Yes they can justify Barbarism but it does not mean that it is keeping with their faith, any number of vehicles could be used for this purpose nationalism for example, it is not the perserve of Religion.


Check up on Sharia Law and its relation to the Islamic faith.  Much of it is derived from passages of the Qu'ran.  I think the wikipedia page cites a few passages actually.
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davidB
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #170 on: May 18, 2008, 03:17 PM »
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Could you re-link me please? I've been through this thread once already and didn't notice any such links.

Surely though, one doesn't need a single scientific paper. Just cite me a few. I assure you that I'm no ignoramous. We could carry on a 10 hour discussion on the CMBR if you so desire.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #171 on: May 18, 2008, 03:17 PM »
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davidB, the Talk Origins website would be an ideal site for you to get information.  It is concerned specifically with this area.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #172 on: May 18, 2008, 03:20 PM »
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Could you re-link me please? I've been through this thread once already and didn't notice any such links.

Surely though, one doesn't need a single scientific paper. Just cite me a few. I assure you that I'm no ignoramous. We could carry on a 10 hour discussion on the CMBR if you so desire.


I didn't suggest you were an ignoramus.

Here's a few links:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html

http://www.talkorigins.or...aqs/faq-transitional.html

http://www.talkorigins.or...mdesc/section1.html#pred4

http://www.talkorigins.or...gins/postmonth/feb98.html

If you want published articles, I'll have to go into my Athens account.  Bear with me.
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AL1874
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #173 on: May 18, 2008, 03:23 PM »
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Sharia Law is not based purely on the Qu'ran, it also has certain laws which derived from principles established by Islamic lawyers and judges.

Therefore if they are wrong in their interpration it does mean the religion is wrong.

Yes they can justify Barbarism but it does not mean that it is keeping with their faith, any number of vehicles could be used for this purpose nationalism for example, it is not the perserve of Religion.



Check up on Sharia Law and its relation to the Islamic faith.  Much of it is derived from passages of the Qu'ran.  I think the wikipedia page cites a few passages actually.


I don't think I said Sharia Law was not dirived in part from the Qu'ran.
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davidB
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #174 on: May 18, 2008, 03:27 PM »
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Here's a question for you: Paleontologists have been known to find dinosaur bones that they assumed were mere deviations from a well known species. At some later point though, they may decide, after finding a complete skeleton, that this is a whole new animal, one that bears similarities to the reptile previously discovered, and perhaps some with another creature that seems to have lived at a later time. What makes the animal in the middle transitional. The transition thing just seems like a grand assumption.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #175 on: May 18, 2008, 03:44 PM »
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Here's a question for you: Paleontologists have been known to find dinosaur bones that they assumed were mere deviations from a well known species. At some later point though, they may decide, after finding a complete skeleton, that this is a whole new animal, one that bears similarities to the reptile previously discovered, and perhaps some with another creature that seems to have lived at a later time. What makes the animal in the middle transitional. The transition thing just seems like a grand assumption.


What makes an animal transitional is the existence of characteristics of different species.  For example, Tiktaalik is a transitional form between fish and amphibians.  It shows characteristics of both.

Archaeopteryx is another popular example.  It is a transitional form between dinosaurs and birds.
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davidB
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #176 on: May 18, 2008, 03:51 PM »
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I understand what it means, but don't you think that's a bit of a leap to say a cold blooded bird evolved from pterodactyls which then evolved into birds? Since macroevolution takes so long, why isn't there evidence of any animals between pterodactyls and archaeopteryx?
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #177 on: May 18, 2008, 03:53 PM »
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Here's a question for you: Paleontologists have been known to find dinosaur bones that they assumed were mere deviations from a well known species. At some later point though, they may decide, after finding a complete skeleton, that this is a whole new animal, one that bears similarities to the reptile previously discovered, and perhaps some with another creature that seems to have lived at a later time. What makes the animal in the middle transitional. The transition thing just seems like a grand assumption.


And no, the existence of transitionals are not assumptions.  One reason we know this is that evolution makes predictions.  Indeed, Darwin made predictions of transitionals that would be found.  Those transitionals have been found years later, backing up what he believed would need to happen to prove evolution.  And then there are genetics and we share traits.

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes and apes have 24 pairs.  In order to prove common ancestry, there must be an explanation for why we have one less pair.  Evolution makes this prediction and years later genetics could have disproved it.  However, it didn't.  Two pairs of our chromosomes, in fact, fused together.  This is observable.  Evolution makes testable predictions like that and always passes the test.

Had the fusion of those chromosomes not been discovered, evolution would be in trouble.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #178 on: May 18, 2008, 03:59 PM »
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I understand what it means, but don't you think that's a bit of a leap to say a cold blooded bird evolved from pterodactyls which then evolved into birds? Since macroevolution takes so long, why isn't there evidence of any animals between pterodactyls and archaeopteryx?


It is a very rare occurrence.  For life forms to be preserved takes special circumstances, so it is not feasible to expect every single transitional form to be found.  That's not how things work.

Even if the transitional you mentioned existed, you could then ask why isn't there a transitional between that and pterodactyls?  There are thousands upon thousands of transitional fossils and those are further explained through other methods.

You need to research the subject.  You're buying into many of the common misconceptions.  Did you check any of the links I posted?
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davidB
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #179 on: May 18, 2008, 04:00 PM »
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I didn't say that transitionals were assumptions. I used that word as part of my paleontological example. To me, there's a big gap between finding an animal that shares the characteristics of two other animals, and saying that there's a macroevolutional pattern to be found. You can't just say that Apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Which apes are we talking about here?
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