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Who created us?

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Clydey
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Re: Murray's premature autobiography « Reply #15 on: May 17, 2008, 05:23 PM »
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Tell me I've not been censored for question religious beliefs.  My posts have gone.  Have they been moved to a new topic?
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Quackers
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Re: Murray's premature autobiography « Reply #16 on: May 17, 2008, 05:24 PM »
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New topic as its clear this Religious debate is in the completely wrong thread.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #17 on: May 17, 2008, 05:25 PM »
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Clydey, you automatically got sent a private message when this discussion was moved.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #18 on: May 17, 2008, 05:26 PM »
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There's no evidence of who created the first molecule (or whatever it was) before the universe existed and therefore it's equally as silly to say God created it or that he didn't.

There's no evidence of who created the first molecule (or whatever it was) before the universe existed and therefore it's equally as silly to say God created it or that he didn't.


You are assuming that there has to be a "who", excluding natural causes.  And therefore also failing to answer a better question:  if God created the first molecule, who created God?
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #19 on: May 17, 2008, 05:27 PM »
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Clydey, you automatically got sent a private message when this discussion was moved.


Just noticed it.  Apologies.  I just saw a bunch of posts missing, saw that Al's was still there and thought mine had been deleted.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #20 on: May 17, 2008, 05:39 PM »
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Just noticed it.  Apologies.  I just saw a bunch of posts missing, saw that Al's was still there and thought mine had been deleted.
No problem, we generally don't censor anything on this website.



You are assuming that there has to be a "who", excluding natural causes.  And therefore also failing to answer a better question:  if God created the first molecule, who created God?
That's exactly what I'm getting at! If God created it, then who created God? If natural causes is the reason then what created the environment that allowed the natural causes to take place? All these theories, at the root of them, are as irrational as each other and therefore there is no point arguing because no one has the more sensible theory in the big picture.
[ Last edit by Mark May 17, 2008, 08:50 PM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #21 on: May 17, 2008, 05:42 PM »
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That's exactly what I'm getting at! If God created it, then who created God? If natural causes is the reason then what created the environment that allowed the natural causes to take place? All these theories, at the root of them, are as irrational as each other and therefore there is no point arguing because no one has the more sensible theory in the big picture.


The big bang created the environment as know it.  That is a well supported theory, so there is no real question about what created the environment.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #22 on: May 17, 2008, 05:42 PM »
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The big bang created the environment as know it.  That is a well supported theory, so there is no real question about what created the environment.
I'm talking about the root of all these theories... who/what created the environment that allowed the big bang to happen, what created that environment. It's something that we will never be able to answer hence the introduction of God, some would say the fact we can't answer these questions means that there has to be something greater than us that can comprehend eternal existence or how it all started, if there is a beginning.
[ Last edit by Mark May 17, 2008, 05:48 PM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #23 on: May 17, 2008, 05:54 PM »
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Yes, but God is not supported by evidence.  Science is continually eroding belief, as findings increasingly contradict scripture.  God filled in the gaps in an age when we thought the world was flat.  Belief can no loner be reconciled with science.

The universe having always existed is far more plausible than the existence of an all powerful space daddy.  And even if such a space daddy existed, which one is it?  There are so many that have been worshiped over the years.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #24 on: May 17, 2008, 05:55 PM »
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The universe having always existed is far more plausible than the existence of an all powerful space daddy. 
That's where I strongly disagree with you, I think they are both equally plausible.
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #25 on: May 17, 2008, 05:59 PM »
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Yes, but God is not supported by evidence.  Science is continually eroding belief, as findings increasingly contradict scripture.  God filled in the gaps in an age when we thought the world was flat.  Belief can no loner be reconciled with science.

The universe having always existed is far more plausible than the existence of an all powerful space daddy.  And even if such a space daddy existed, which one is it?  There are so many that have been worshiped over the years.


But we never thought the world was flat. Don't you watch QI? Yet another one of those myth things that everyone thinks is true.

Oh, and the bible has the world as round.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #26 on: May 17, 2008, 06:03 PM »
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Can I just say... is it really sensible for someone who believes in the big bang to argue with someone who believes in God? Surely both theories can perfectly coexist - the big bang happened but God instigated it. I'm not talking about God in relation to a specific religion btw.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #27 on: May 17, 2008, 06:06 PM »
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But we never thought the world was flat. Don't you watch QI? Yet another one of those myth things that everyone thinks is true.

Oh, and the bible has the world as round.


I'll concede the former point.  That was ignorant of me.  It wasn't widely believed to be flat.

And if the bible has the earth as round, it is wrong.  The earth is spherical.  Do you really want to scrutinise the bible for factual inaccuracies?  If you're devout, the last thing you want to do is study the bible closely.  There's no quicker way to become an atheist.
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Mark
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #28 on: May 17, 2008, 06:08 PM »
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And if the bible has the earth as round, it is wrong.  The earth is spherical. 
Aren't you being a little immature? That's obviously what she meant, it hardly needed to be said like that.
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Clydey
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Re: Who created us? « Reply #29 on: May 17, 2008, 06:10 PM »
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Can I just say... is it really sensible for someone who believes in the big bang to argue with someone who believes in God? Surely both theories can perfectly coexist - the big bang happened but God instigated it. I'm not talking about God in relation to a specific religion btw.


Can they co-exist?  Not really.  If you stipulate that something had to create the big bang, then it follows that something must have created the entity that caused the big bang.  It would be an infinite regression.  You can't just say "God did it".  The Flying Spaghetti Monster was created to mock people who do that (intelligent design, more specifically).

We believe what we believe based on evidence.  It is just as plausible to say that the FSM created the universe as it is to attribute it to God.
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