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Federer outclasses substandard Murray

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Andy "Braveheart" Murray

Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #90 on: November 12, 2012, 01:03 PM »
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Brilliant post Ruthie and very informative, of course you can become an adopted Scot, we are a nice bunch you know!!  I have been to the DC four times at Braehead, now the DC is supposed to be partisan, but at no time was there any booing of the opposition.  Sure there was friendly banter from the Uni Students, but that is only what it was friendly banter, I think one of the opposition players had long hair and evytime he came down to the end where the students were he got a chorus of " ponytails are for girls" which he thought was really funny and bantered back.  It was all very friendly, unlike the hostile environment last night, which was disgraceful.  It just proves how together Andy is because at no time did he react to the hecklers and remained dignified in his presser.

Not wishing to lower myself to the level of the so called "British" crowd last night I truly hope Djoko flattens Smugface tonight!!
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #91 on: November 12, 2012, 01:17 PM »
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The thing that would have silenced the crowd was a win from Andy.
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Alis
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #92 on: November 12, 2012, 01:19 PM »
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I even admired Andy for keeping relatively calm last night facing a non-supportive crowd and making (consequently)a lot of UE. I could have expected him to explode any time, which I would have understood all too well. And hats off to his mature words in the interview about Fed's fans.

What did he say about Fed's fans - I must have missed that?
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #93 on: November 12, 2012, 01:19 PM »
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Thanks Iris and MM for extending the hand of honorary Scottish citizenship - much prefer it to English after last night I have to say!  And thanks PT for your response to my question.  I do think we shouldn't underestimate the impact on Andy of having his home crowd [even if many of them were in fact from overseas] appear to turn against him like that when everyone thought that British tennis fans had finally come to embrace Andy.
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #94 on: November 12, 2012, 01:24 PM »
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My heart broke for Andy last night in that cauldron of hysterical over-the-top adoration for his opponent.  We all expected Federer to have great support but nothing prepared me for the almost-tangible antipathy towards Andy.  Fed described the atmosphere as electric, and he wasn't kidding.  My TV set was sizzling with something I've never witnessed before - that baying mob of a crowd wanted darling Roger to win so badly that they forgot their manners completely.

The old guy played great but Andy is a sensitive, emotional human being and there was no doubt that the pressure and sense of evil emanating from so many rancid creatures around that arena definitely got to him.  It felt more like witnessing a disgusting cock-fight or fox-kill, with Jolly Roger fanatics blatantly licking their lips at the smell of Andy Murray's blood.  It was almost a relief when Andy capitulated and gave them what they wanted.  By then he (and I) had had enough.  I just wanted him off that court and in a place of safety.  God only knows what might have happened if Andy had won...

Leave 'em to their triumphal spoils - their hero's days at the top are numbered and their desperation for his continued success manifested itself in a shameful display of graceless insensitivity towards their man's opponent.  It takes two to play a tennis match and once again Andy played his part in what should have been a magnificent sporting occasion.  Unfortunately there was nothing sporting about Federer's army of supporters. 

 Good posting!

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Aileen
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #95 on: November 12, 2012, 01:36 PM »
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Sometimes I do wish he would stop all the negative behaviour he exhibits on court, but then at other times i think, he is being true to himself and so i conclude that's why i love Andy, because he keeps it real. There is no slip of the mask or veneer. what you see is what you get. Has he reset himself back to his default behaviour, my conclusion is that he has not. From my observations of Andy and other tennis players (female also). Andy is no worse than a lot of them when it comes to negative antics on court. Andy is not Nole, Roger, Rafa, Tomas or Serena come to think. He is Andy, for all his little idiosyncrasies and sometimes nonchalant behaviour he is always true to himself.  He openly admits that he lets himself down occasionally. It takes courage to introspect honestly about ones self and to then change. We all know change is never easy to accept. I believe Andy is heading in the right direction. Should he worry about what other people think of him? Namely the British public. Arguably, some would say yes he should, i say to a degree he needs to be his own person but at the same time understand that he is in a unique position (which i am sure he does already) and because of this he is afforded many privileges and so needs to be even more self aware of how he portrays himself both on and off the tennis courts. Its not an easy thing to do in the heat of battle, while i believe his interviews have improved immensely. I now find him engaging and at ease when he is in front of the camera.

However, that said, Andy should not change what he does or who he is just to suit the whim of others. This would be detrimental to his own understanding of himself. From what i witness of Andy on court his outbursts are signs of his internal frustrations and battles. Andy knows he can play exquisite tennis, so when it does not happen for him he understandably gets upset with himself. Should he be trying to manage these difficult moments better? Possibly. But who 's to say he is not already trying to do just that? None of us know what goes on in the mind of others. As outsiders, we use conjecture, assumptions and our own biases to propagate various theories that fit nicely with our own model of the world and how things should be in that world. We would all do well to stop trying to superimpose our model of the world onto Andy's model. I for one have no expectations of Andy, only that he be the best he can be for himself. If The British public don't like what they see, don't watch his matches or follow him on twitter. Just as we are all trying find our own paths in this world, Andy is trying to find his own path in the crazy world that is The ATP TOUR. He lost a match last night, no one died!

Rest up Andy you deserve it.  hug
Good posting!  Fortunately from what I've read in the press Andy has no intention of letting last night's debacle detract from the truly great season he has had.  Let's face it, he's had an emotionally exhausting year, so is it so surprising that he finally reached the end of his tether last night in the fact of so much hostility?  And I'm glad that from the papers I have looked at the reporters seemed to be unimpressed with the crowd's behaviour.

Also I was having a coffee this morning with an (English) male friend, and a new convert to tennis instead of footie - and who thinks those who continually dredge up the "anyone but England" remark totally puerile - who questioned that, given the fact that the match took place on a Sunday evening, just how many of that yobbish crowd were the worse for drink?  Wimbledon the O2 most certainly is not.



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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #96 on: November 12, 2012, 01:42 PM »
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Players getting booed is as old as time, Andy is not the first player to get booed and won't be the last, it is a fact that every match that Andy plays against Federer no matter where he iplays the support will most likely be for Federer. The olympics was the exception for one thing only, he was playing for team GB and that is my opinion as to why he got more support than usual.

Djokovic once had to deal with such hostility in the US that he did an interview afterwards that made things worse when he had a go at them back, at least Andy is wise enough not to go down that route, i have even seen Federer booed when he smashed a racquet it happens all the time.

There are 3 types of player, there is the iceman player (Borg, Wilander, Federer) there is the showman, usually french (Tsonga, Leconte, Monfils) and then there is Andy's category, the Villain - i don't mean of  the panto variety, i mean the players who are not there to care what you think of them, the ones who show you every emotion they have, they look stroppy on the court, they berate themselves and they generally look like they are having a pretty bad time even when winning.

I would put Andy alongside McEnroe, Lendl, Nadal, and to some extent Djokovic. Look at how McEnroe was perceived when playing, how about Lendl? there was an article written in Time magazine that described Lendl, as the champion that nobody wanted - and now look how is viewed by others, nothing but respect.

Tennis is an individual sport, you either like someone or you don't. I went to the doctors this morning and she asked me what i was doing tonight, i said i would probably watch the tennis final and she looked amazed and said that she is also into tennis and did i watch last night's match. The first thing she mentioned was how good was it that Federer won and that she loves him to bits, but think Andy is so moody she can not relate to him, even though he is a good player.

We may be biased with regards to our support of Andy, and this is why we take criticism from people who do not like him personally, there is a big difference though in my book, and that is i have no problem if you do not like him, what i do have a problem with is if you do not like him for the wrong reasons, ie - thinking he cannot play tennis, that he is not as good as the other top 4, or that he is a choker etc - these reasons show that they do not support him because they simply prefer other players, but rather that they generally wish him ill feelings, and that is what i cannot abide, it almost feels like genuine hatred for the guy and i would like to know why people feel like this about him, the comments i have read this morning are horrendous - if people feel the need to say that he was outplayed, then fine they are correct, but it does not end there, they then question his talent, his persona, his temperament, all the old finger pointing starts up again and then we get the "anyone but murray" finale.

I sometimes wonder if Andy was English how much difference it would make to his support in this country, i am ashamed to say that it would probably be much better than it is now. The fact that he is Scottish really does go against him when playing in England, how dare a Scot think he can come and take over as the darling of Wimbledon and go one better than our man Timbo Henman, it's just not proper, what is wrong with tht LTA, how dare he go to Spain to be a better tennis player, where is my Pimms. I for one love him to bits, and i'm a bloke of 41, he is my sporting Idol and i will follow him to retire, I am also English and i recognise that he plays for Great Britain, but i also don't give a toss that he was born in Scotland, what a shame there are so many people who do.
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #97 on: November 12, 2012, 01:46 PM »
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I went to bed in a very low mood last night - I could not believe the booing a nd the lack of support for Andy when his behaviour had done little or nothing to warrant it. Even the delectable Annabel thought the hostile crowd may have had a detrimental effect on Andy's game.
Reading this thread this morning I feel a little better, firstly by Andy's own sensible words after the match and then Ruthie's posts followed by PT, Clementine et al. Very positive thoughts expressed by all and the British certainly don't deserve a sportsman like Andy. I hope he has a good holiday and Christmas plus a good session of training in Miami and finds success in Aussie - they always welcome him there.
Most of all I hope he doesn't allow the experience with the crowd last night to dampen his enthusiasm - he still has many faithful English fans who would haave drowned out the dissenters had we been able to get to the O2 last night.
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #98 on: November 12, 2012, 02:17 PM »
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Just got home having been there last night and here are some quick reflections.  Will reflect on Tsonga match on appropriate thread later as was there in 2nd row for that.  No time to read this thread right now.

The more I reflect on last night the more I think it was the 'crowd wot won it' for smugfed.   It was clear from earlier on that there was greater support for him than for Andy from the level of cheers that went up when their respective names were announced/pictures went up on screen etc. Andy has spoken alot about the importance of the crowd support he receives at home and I think after the Olympics he believed he'd get it here.  Well it was not to be. Although there were many of us shouting for Andy, we were out shouted and out-flagged by fed supporters. I even invested in a Saltire [I've never waved a flag before in my life and couldn't bring myself to wave a union flag so hope you'll accept me as an honorary scot my Scottish friends on MW!].  I think this may have got to Andy especially when he was booed during the tie break for changing his racquet  (something that the Guardian report majors on) even though it was on his own serve.  Andy's play got worse after that.  And Andy was pretty flat and while it might have been tiredness I do think it was psychological - not getting the support he'd hoped for.  After all he didn't look tired in the Tsonga match. 

For myself it was so disappointing that Andy didn't do himself justice out there.  I did my best screaming and waving the Saltire.  At one point,  I let out a deep breath and the young woman next to me asked me if I was alright in a concerned voice!  I said yes, but just found it stressful and my friend was the opposite side of the arena. She was clapping for andy and not fed but no shouting or anything.  My other side was a Slovakanian or was it Slovenian couple [whichever Fed's wife is]. She was screeching Roger Roger like a parrot with a v shrill voice. When she wasn't she was chatting to her partner.  This so incensed the young women the other side of me that they said they couldn't stand it anymore and said would watch last game from the back.
There were alot of overseas smugfed fans there but also quite a few (largely posh) English voices shouting for him too. This reminded me of a memory I'd supressed from the Olympics. The woman I was next to on Murrays Mount had said she'd normally be shouting for fed but because Andy was representing Team GB she was shouting for him that day.  I think that was true of quite a few people.  That's not to say that Andy is as unpopular as he was -witness coming 2nd in the ATP poll - but we should never underestimate the level of support for smugfed among British tennis fans and I wonder if Andy did.
 
Oh and another thought. Andy's serving was poor last night and I did wonder whether it was that back again contributing.  Had it not been for the serve I think he could have won the first set without fed breaking back and then the match might have ended very differently.

Clementine good post.  That was sure how it felt. And it left me feeling quite bruised I have to say. 
Finally, so glad Andy is focusing on the positives of the year and that he's now going to have a holiday.  I hope too he can get any necessary treatment for the back, which was what Kevin Mitchell had said he'd be doing recently.

Oh and just read Mike Dickson.  He's right: British sports fans really don't deserve Andy. 

And I have no idea what match FCR was watching but it wasn't the one I was watching in the arena.  I thought Andy kept it together very well in what must have been such disappointing circumstances for him. And I note he was very gracious afterwards in acknowleding that Fed has such a strong fan base and not in any way implying that he felt he should have had more support. 
I enjoyed reading your post Ruthie.  It's always good to hear from somebody who was actually there, even although it sounds a very unpleasant experience.

First, I have great pleasure in welcoming you as an honorary Scot!  Bagpipes

Second, and more seriously, it will be interesting to see if there's an improvement in Andy's serve come the start of next season if, in fact, he's had his back problem properly treated by then.

Third, Mike Dickson may have a point - and it seems to me that a fair number of Brits haven't a clue how to treat home-frown great achievers (I hate the word "heroes") but will happily fawn over somebody from overseas.  Of course I don't expect everyone to like a British sportsman or woman, but can't they at least keep hostility to a minimum when required?  We have our own gripes about SmugFed but I doubt any one of us would go to a tournament and treat him the way that crowd treated Andy.
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #99 on: November 12, 2012, 02:21 PM »
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No Aileen, we wouldn't. The total contrast to last night was the last time Andy played Davis Cup in Glasgow, the time he was reduced to tears. Wonderful atmosphere, super event = but that's the Scots for you - can I join as well?
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #100 on: November 12, 2012, 02:23 PM »
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No Aileen, we wouldn't. The total contrast to last night was the last time Andy played Davis Cup in Glasgow, the time he was reduced to tears. Wonderful atmosphere, super event = but that's the Scots for you - can I join as well?
Of course you can Jan.  The more the merrier! hug
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #101 on: November 12, 2012, 02:24 PM »
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me too  Smile   please
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #102 on: November 12, 2012, 02:28 PM »
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me too  Smile   please
Uh??  I thought you were Scottish!  Or do you want to be known as a Double Scotch? Very Happy
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #103 on: November 12, 2012, 02:30 PM »
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oh  I am  Very Happy    hug double  Scotch sounds nice.   
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Re: Federer outclasses substandard Murray « Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 02:37 PM »
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So long as it isn't on the rocks ... a bit chilly that! Whistle
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