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Murray dismisses sports psychology

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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #165 on: December 18, 2011, 12:47 PM »
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" refelction Murray can look upon that run and the result as a decent one against a guy who had one of the best seasons ever..."

No he cannot look at it like that, not because he lost but because he wasn't able to even try, that's why it was a poor result which is obviously the point being made here ak400. Still there's no point in crying over spilt milk, you just have to improve & avoid doing it in the future again.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #166 on: December 18, 2011, 04:54 PM »
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" refelction Murray can look upon that run and the result as a decent one against a guy who had one of the best seasons ever..."

No he cannot look at it like that, not because he lost but because he wasn't able to even try, that's why it was a poor result which is obviously the point being made here ak400. Still there's no point in crying over spilt milk, you just have to improve & avoid doing it in the future again.

Perhaps you mean this tcbm by 'he wasn't able to even try' because I'm quite sure he was trying his hardest.  It's just that somehow he was inhibited from playing the tennis he is capable of.  Sometimes people write as if such lapses are deliberate [and not saying you're doing that] when they are clearly utterly utterly painful hence the collapse the next few months.  And this is why I hope that, even if he dismisses a sports psychologist, Andy seeks help with that side of playing in a GS final.  Someone who can help him through meditation, breathing whatever plus someone who has been there like Agassi.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #167 on: December 18, 2011, 05:32 PM »
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"It's just that somehow he was inhibited from playing the tennis he is capable of.."

Ofcourse, I didn't mean it was on purpose. But he's still responsible for it ultimately. He has to get a handle on his nerves. I say don't repress them, like last time against Novak which made him flat, work through them instead run them off use, their energy, whatever works. But really he's going to have to find that place in himself that is able to do it, he will be on his own come the crunch. I dont know what it shall require but I know it wont come in the guise of tentativeness or negative playing. Still It's not impossible for anyone to overcome unless there is some actual psychological problem. He surely can do it because let's face it he's already doing it week in week out on other venues and contexts. Look at how fast he came out of the blocks against Fed in Shanghai last year for example.
I'm not super worried about this really (although it is concerning) it's natural to have nerves but it is also natural to get used to them, & he shall create plenty more opportunities for himself to get used to the pressure. Last year he became one of only 7 in the open era to make all slam semis.
No ones more talented than Andy, he just needs some momentum and 1 last push of self belief.
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kel3350
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #168 on: December 18, 2011, 07:51 PM »
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Kel yes we are who we are but we are also beings who can change.  So while yes at one level I am the same person I was when younger I'm also different in many ways. And one of the things that helped me to change was therapy.  I was certainly much more prone to negativity and depression when younger.  So I do think that Andy could learn how to deal better, on and off court, with adversity but without losing the qualities that I for one love in him.   
But I agree with you [think it was you in an earlier  post] who questioned the idea that he simply went off in 'a huff' after AO final.  I think that was devastating for him.  It wasn't just the losing but the losing so poorly and to someone who until then had been his peer and who I personally believe is not the better player of the two.  He must have seen this as his best chance hitherto to win a slam and he must have felt like he blew it.  Only human to go into a tailspin after that.  But I wish in such situations he would then accept help so that he gets back on his feet sooner than he did last year.
Hi, Ruthie. Accepting help? That'll be the day! He's a stubborn so-and-so, isn't he? Like others, I don't know how I'll cope when he next makes a Slam final... Perhaps he'll be fortunate enough to meet a Simon or a Lopez and we'll see the real Andy at work. Then again, as the clear favourite, the pressure will be ON which could very easily work against him...
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kel3350
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #169 on: December 18, 2011, 08:46 PM »
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Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it. And to the rest - kick back, watch TV, eat and drink rubbish (as if you need an excuse).
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ak400
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #170 on: December 18, 2011, 10:56 PM »
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" refelction Murray can look upon that run and the result as a decent one against a guy who had one of the best seasons ever..."

No he cannot look at it like that, not because he lost but because he wasn't able to even try, that's why it was a poor result which is obviously the point being made here ak400. Still there's no point in crying over spilt milk, you just have to improve & avoid doing it in the future again.

His attitude and approach are also issues that can be looked at but my point was simply that in isolation that result v Djokovic in hindsight was a very positive one! you make the finals of a slam and lose to a guy who has had the greatest year of all time then you have had a really good Slam. Even more so if you havent won one then its a run to be proud of for sure.
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kel3350
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #171 on: December 18, 2011, 11:05 PM »
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kel3350
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #172 on: December 18, 2011, 11:12 PM »
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His attitude and approach are also issues that can be looked at but my point was simply that in isolation that result v Djokovic in hindsight was a very positive one! you make the finals of a slam and lose to a guy who has had the greatest year of all time then you have had a really good Slam. Even more so if you havent won one then its a run to be proud of for sure.
I disagree, ak400. There were no positives to take from his most recent Slam final from where I was sitting. It was his worst performance of the three... We know he can make Slam finals but is he any closer to actually winning one?
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ak400
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #173 on: December 18, 2011, 11:21 PM »
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I disagree, ak400. There were no positives to take from his most recent Slam final from where I was sitting. It was his worst performance of the three... We know he can make Slam finals but is he any closer to actually winning one?

I guess it is the apples and oranges situation in that case, but certainly surely the fact that Novak went on to have the year that he did have must make you and I am sure him feel at least slightly a feeling of, (the loss sucks but at least to it was to a guy having a GOAT year)

I mean its not like he lost to an in form Tsonga or Fish guys that he would be the favourite to win I excecpt that would be harder but losing when you were the underdog is easier to accept I would imagine and in hindsight we have seen he was an even bigger underdog that we first though against Novak prior to the final!

With all that said I do take your point that until he does actually win one there will still be those doubts in his mind as to if he can do it.
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kel3350
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #174 on: December 19, 2011, 12:23 AM »
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I guess it is the apples and oranges situation in that case, but certainly surely the fact that Novak went on to have the year that he did have must make you and I am sure him feel at least slightly a feeling of, (the loss sucks but at least to it was to a guy having a GOAT year)

I mean its not like he lost to an in form Tsonga or Fish guys that he would be the favourite to win I excecpt that would be harder but losing when you were the underdog is easier to accept I would imagine and in hindsight we have seen he was an even bigger underdog that we first though against Novak prior to the final!

With all that said I do take your point that until he does actually win one there will still be those doubts in his mind as to if he can do it.
Hi, ak400. Okay, there were no positives to take from the AO final but it could've been worse. Getting straight-setted by Fish would've been the absolute pits! Oof, imagine that. Actually, no, let's not.
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deb
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #175 on: December 19, 2011, 10:01 AM »
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Perhaps you mean this tcbm by 'he wasn't able to even try' because I'm quite sure he was trying his hardest.  It's just that somehow he was inhibited from playing the tennis he is capable of.  Sometimes people write as if such lapses are deliberate [and not saying you're doing that] when they are clearly utterly utterly painful hence the collapse the next few months.  And this is why I hope that, even if he dismisses a sports psychologist, Andy seeks help with that side of playing in a GS final.  Someone who can help him through meditation, breathing whatever plus someone who has been there like Agassi.
Oh Agassi would be great and Andy really looks up to him, i do think we will see a very different Andy next year, i feel that he has learnt a lot this year, there was a nice right up by espn this week, dont no how to post it on here, sorry.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #176 on: December 19, 2011, 10:32 AM »
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Hi, Ruthie. Accepting help? That'll be the day! He's a stubborn so-and-so, isn't he? Like others, I don't know how I'll cope when he next makes a Slam final... Perhaps he'll be fortunate enough to meet a Simon or a Lopez and we'll see the real Andy at work. Then again, as the clear favourite, the pressure will be ON which could very easily work against him...
Yes he's a stubborn so and so but that doesn't mean he might not look for help on his own terms.  In fact, he has hinted as much when he has said that he has spoken to many different people about the psychological side.  I do think there have been real changes in the last year.  I just hope that when [and I will say when] he gets to his next GS final he can deal with the nerves in the way that youcanbillme suggests.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #177 on: December 20, 2011, 12:34 AM »
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Extract from an article in a Sunday newspaper (unfortunately not online), which was entitled Murray deserves to be there, in which John Inverdale launched a fierce defence of Andy following criticism that he doesn't deserve to be on the BBC SPOTY shortlist yet again because he hasn't won a Slam, and therefore isn't one of sport's highest achievers.

Inverdale pointed to Andy's achievements in 2011, and went on to say:

Andy thoroughly deserves to be there ... He's had probably the best year any British tennis player has had in 70 years.  It has been phenomenal.

The problem is that people see him as finishing second, third or fourth, rather than as a winner.

But everyone in this country should be proud of Andy.  And anyone who denigrates his achievements knows nothing about tennis.

He is the best player Britain has ever produced, bar none.  And I include Fred Perry who did win Wimbledon.

Given that, you'd think he would surely win a Grand Slam at some point, but it's not that easy.

Andy is unfortunate to find himself playing in what I believe is tennis's greatest ever era, with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic around at the same time.

A seed of doubt that Andy will never win a big one may now be in his mind, especially as he's never taken a single set in any of the three finals he's reached.

But I've been covering tennis for the BBC for a long time now and my fervent hope is that I'm there when Andy finally wins a Grand Slam title because he undoubtedly has the game, the dedication and the desire to do so.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #178 on: December 20, 2011, 02:35 AM »
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And from ESPN's Peter Bodo, one of the most respected bloggers in the tennis world -

It's not so bad for Andy Murray after all [19 Dec]

Although Andy Murray's late-season surge ensures that he won't be left off too many of the "best of" or "most memorable" lists, he'll more likely be cited for less glorious achievements, including:

• That wretched performance against Novak Djokovic in the Australian Open final.

• That February/March swoon, including those cringe-inducing losses to a pair of "Jrs," Donald Young and Alex Bogomolov.

• His stall -- once again -- at Wimbledon, this time in the semis.

• The four spankings he endured at the Grand Slam events.

But if you look at the big picture, there were mitigating circumstances attached to all those disappointments, and 2011 may go down as a year in which Murray took a huge step forward -- and set the stage for a potential breakthrough in 2012.

Read more - http://espn.go.com/tennis/blog/_/name/bodo_peter/id/7368413/tennis-not-bad-andy-murray-all
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deb
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Re: Murray dismisses sports psychology « Reply #179 on: December 20, 2011, 08:32 AM »
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Extract from an article in a Sunday newspaper (unfortunately not online), which was entitled Murray deserves to be there, in which John Inverdale launched a fierce defence of Andy following criticism that he doesn't deserve to be on the BBC SPOTY shortlist yet again because he hasn't won a Slam, and therefore isn't one of sport's highest achievers.

Inverdale pointed to Andy's achievements in 2011, and went on to say:

Andy thoroughly deserves to be there ... He's had probably the best year any British tennis player has had in 70 years.  It has been phenomenal.

The problem is that people see him as finishing second, third or fourth, rather than as a winner.

But everyone in this country should be proud of Andy.  And anyone who denigrates his achievements knows nothing about tennis.

He is the best player Britain has ever produced, bar none.  And I include Fred Perry who did win Wimbledon.

Given that, you'd think he would surely win a Grand Slam at some point, but it's not that easy.

Andy is unfortunate to find himself playing in what I believe is tennis's greatest ever era, with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic around at the same time.

A seed of doubt that Andy will never win a big one may now be in his mind, especially as he's never taken a single set in any of the three finals he's reached.

But I've been covering tennis for the BBC for a long time now and my fervent hope is that I'm there when Andy finally wins a Grand Slam title because he undoubtedly has the game, the dedication and the desire to do so.

Totally agree with that Aileen, thank goodness for John Inverdale, i am very proud of Andy, and hope all his dreams come true in 2012, and i am sure they will.
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