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Author Topic: Murray dumped out in Montreal  (Read 4893 times)
Caz
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #300 on: August 16, 2011, 04:19 PM »
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I don't agree with that! I think homophobia is more of a prejudice rather than just an opinion which could be hurtful as well as insulting! If he can't be more tolerant, he should keep his mouth shut!
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #301 on: August 16, 2011, 04:25 PM »
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Well Michelle,
I do believe Tipsaravic has every right to his opinion and should be free to say it.
But that certainly does not mean that I should be `more accepting` of it esp if it is of a racist, sexist or homophobic (ie bigoted) nature.
And youre not talking to some woolly headed tree hugger, trust me on that.
Nothing is stopping you from having whatever morals you wish.
Our so called `with it` society is actually liberal democracy that allows you to do just that (I'm English btw).
Consider yourself lucky you do not live under opression.
Personally I just don't see what all the fuss is about homosexuality, thats all, although I'm not sure a tennis forum is the right platform for this kind of discussion.
I also find your `respect` for his predjudiced position suspect to say the least.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #302 on: August 16, 2011, 04:37 PM »
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Well Michelle,
I do believe Tipsaravic has every right to his opinion and should be free to say it.
But that certainly does not mean that I should be `more accepting` of it esp if it is of a racist, sexist or homophobic (ie bigoted) nature.
And youre not talking to some woolly headed tree hugger, trust me on that.
Nothing is stopping you from having whatever morals you wish.
Our so called `with it` society is actually liberal democracy that allows you to do just that (I'm English btw).
Consider yourself lucky you do not live under opression.
Personally I just don't see what all the fuss is about homosexuality, thats all, although I'm not sure a tennis forum is the right platform for this kind of discussion.
I also find your `respect` for his predjudiced position suspect to say the least.
Well it arose on the forum because I'd said I'd gone off Tipsaravic (who I'd previously found rather intriguing because of his penchant for philosophy etc) because I thought someone had said he's expressed racist views. In fact I misremembered and it was homophobic views.  But the fact is that, as Caz says, this is not just about opinion but has the capacity to hurt because it denigrates a whole group of people.  While I agree we are here to talk tennis theycanbillme it's sometimes difficult to separate the tennis from the tennis player as we all know when we dissect Andy!  And I'm not going to support a player who says what Tipsaravic said.
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deb
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #303 on: August 16, 2011, 04:54 PM »
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Thanks Caz,
Damn, thought it was Today,
As long as he gets through I'm actually a bit more interested in the Del Potro/Federer match...
If Delpo wins he will have done Murray a huge favour in improving his year end ranking.....
I am praying that Delpot beats Fed Andy really needs Fed to play poorly in all events from now on, as you say theycanbillme we  wont number 3 for Andy at the year end. pray
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #304 on: August 16, 2011, 05:00 PM »
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I completely agree with you Ruthie & Caz.
If you have a platform in culture you have to take responsibilty for what you say as it can cause real damage, in this case increase predjudice against a group of people ergo we have a right to find it disagreeable & not support the person making the comments.
Surely there are better things for a Tennis Player to be talking publicly about anyway for goodness sake than how he avoids homosexuals.
Kinda pathetic really & nothing worth respecting.
And draping it in nonsense about traditional values just doesn't wash imo.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #305 on: August 16, 2011, 05:05 PM »
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@Deb
Well looking at it more constructively, Andy could always win Cincinatti and the USO as well, couldn't he?
As that would certainly help him to get there too!
Lets hope and pray for some real success and that he earns the place positively too.
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deb
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #306 on: August 16, 2011, 05:25 PM »
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@Deb
Well looking at it more constructively, Andy could always win Cincinatti and the USO as well, couldn't he?
As that would certainly help him to get there too!
Lets hope and pray for some real success and that he earns the place positively too.
Very true theycanbillme, and i think he will win the USO, 3485 difference in points between Fed and Murray, so if Fed does well much harder for Andy, and yes to earn them positively is the key , but a little help is always welcome in my book.
[ Last edit by deb August 16, 2011, 07:52 PM ] IP Logged
Buhweet
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #307 on: August 16, 2011, 05:26 PM »
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Well Michelle,
I do believe Tipsaravic has every right to his opinion and should be free to say it.
But that certainly does not mean that I should be `more accepting` of it esp if it is of a racist, sexist or homophobic (ie bigoted) nature.
And youre not talking to some woolly headed tree hugger, trust me on that.
Nothing is stopping you from having whatever morals you wish.
Our so called `with it` society is actually liberal democracy that allows you to do just that (I'm English btw).
Consider yourself lucky you do not live under opression.
Personally I just don't see what all the fuss is about homosexuality, thats all, although I'm not sure a tennis forum is the right platform for this kind of discussion.
I also find your `respect` for his predjudiced position suspect to say the least.
I was just thinking the same thing...if this is going to drag on perhaps it needs its own thread???
Who's saying "philosophy" has to be liberal? Just because one reads "philosophy" it does not follow that that they will be more liberal in their views towards politics, art or anything else. In fact the opposite could be true!!! Witness recent events in Norway!!!
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #308 on: August 16, 2011, 05:45 PM »
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Yeah Hitler was very `Philosophical` also and Marx was a philosopher.
Mao too and just about every other dictator has had his own `Philosophy`.
Bad Philosophies, but there you go...
Anyway I do believe we discussed this matter fully Buhweet and so its ran it's natural course.
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Caz
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #309 on: August 16, 2011, 06:00 PM »
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Yep.........nothing else to say on the subject!
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michelle
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #310 on: August 16, 2011, 06:22 PM »
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I said, respect for the person, not his views. And how dare you call me suspect.I have a lot of friends who have views I don't think are right, we still remain friends and respect our differences. That is what I was trying to point out.But I think it is a lost cause as are many things here.
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Buhweet
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #311 on: August 16, 2011, 06:40 PM »
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Yeah Hitler was very `Philosophical` also and Marx was a philosopher.
Mao too and just about every other dictator has had his own `Philosophy`.
Bad Philosophies, but there you go...
Anyway I do believe we discussed this matter fully Buhweet and so its ran it's natural course.
Well, I was going to include the Hitler thing but decided against it. And as you mention there are mulitple examples to draw on....One thing though...I don't think putting Hitler, Mao and Marx in the same class is exactly correct. Marx was more of a economic sociologist and never held any type of political position nor did he aspire to. Other than that...all's good! Cheers!
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #312 on: August 16, 2011, 07:10 PM »
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Michelle,
(And this is the last time I'll respond, regardless to what you say),
I will not `respect` any public person that talks publicly in a racist, sexist or homophobic manner (except perhaps if its ironic & humorous, but even then it depends) that's going too far & I do not care about your own personal friendships, but if you come on here and say you respect someone for doing just that, then you are correct as it is a lost cause and there's no need to argue as we are never going to agree.
Claro?
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Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #313 on: August 16, 2011, 07:12 PM »
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Does that mean you would respect his views if he was a racist Michelle? Because it seems to me, there's not a lot of difference as they're both usually genetically  related!
[ Last edit by Caz August 17, 2011, 06:15 AM ] IP Logged
psychological tennis
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Re: Murray dumped out in Montreal « Reply #314 on: August 16, 2011, 09:05 PM »
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Agree completely with "Theycanbillme" , "Caz" and of course that intriguing protaganist "Buhweet" without wanting to offend "Michelle, i'll just say as an individual you are entitled to believe in what you want to, however if you are a person who makes a living from being in the public eye, then you have to ensure that you present yourself in the best possible light. All well and good having these negative thoughts about homosexuality privately in your head, but when you put them out in the public domain - the very domain that funds your lifestyle -, then as a consequence of your perceived actions (that is to express openly your negative thoughts), you then open yourself up to critisism, this i believe is exactly what "tipsy" has done.
[ Last edit by psychological tennis August 16, 2011, 09:08 PM ] IP Logged
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