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Murray falls to the little Spanish beast

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Elena
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #75 on: June 07, 2012, 11:46 AM »
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Yes well said MM. I'm sure this week was physically and emotionally draining, what with the back situation, Wadegate, the lows and highs of the Gasquet match, the gloomy weather of the last few days, - there were times I wasn't sure I'd got the stamina to continue!


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Ruthie
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #76 on: June 07, 2012, 12:19 PM »
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Good to see you coming out fighting again MM.  I agree.  I had v low expectations at the outset of RG with the lack of match practice on clay and the back problems. In the end Andy exceeded them.  While I do think he could have mixed it up more - which is exactly what he himself said he needed to do in his interview with Petchy earlier that day - I agree with him the primary problem was execution.  Amazing he pushed Ferrer as far as he did with all those ues and poor serves.  Noone else has managed it yet this RG.  So while I'm always disappointed after  a loss I take comfort from knowledge he could have beaten Ferrer with more consistency.  But he could then have got bashed by Rafa so perhaps it is better he's back on the green green grass of home.  I do hope the back won't mean he feels he has to pull out of queens.  And it was good to hear that Andy himself sounded reasonably upbeat in his post-match interviews.  I certainly don't think we should start despairing and writing off his GS chances nor writing off the Lendl effect.  Once he has that fh under control it could become a lethal weapon.
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The Oracle
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Who does Murray REALLY have to beat? « Reply #77 on: June 07, 2012, 12:46 PM »
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After watching all of the Ferrer match last evening - and nearly all of Andy`s matches over the years -  I just had to convey my thoughts to an audience that may - indirectly - include Andy himself, in the hope that he at least gives some thought to what I say.

Lets get this out of the way first:
Andy.......

Has the ability to win Grand Slams
Is unpredictable on court
Experiences extreme highs and lows in his match stats
Generally does not have fitness issues
Has an army of supporters that want him to maximise his success
Has an army of supporters that will try to forget the lows by just writing a loss off, quote positively, find an excuse and move on
Has an army of supporters that will want to vent their frustrations, remind everyone that he could and should have won and maybe identify where he should improve

Please be clear...my statement is not about where he is in the draw, what surface it is, who he plays next, whether it rained, is he injured, etc, etc. All these factors are very secondary.

I do not know how Lendl works as a coach and mentor to Andy and therefore I cannot honestly judge what he will do for Andy in the medium term. One thing no one can argue against right now, considering Andy has not yet won a Grand Slam, is that change has to take place. But what exactly needs changing?

Andy manages himself and determines who he hires and fires. Consistent around him are his `mates` - there only for hitting and physiotherapy - when his real need is in the area of mental improvement. But can Andy objectively identify this? And whilst Lendl may try to - in some way - support this area, he is not a professional sports psychologist and that is exactly what is required right now.

All of us have a `chimpanzee` inside of our heads and it is our individual and personal ability to manage the chimp in our heads - especially whilst on court -  that will determine the level of effective application of all the rest of our skills in the pursuit of results. Andy - I afraid -  owns one of the biggest primates in the mens top ten and has got to get to grips with its obedience.

There`s a guy who recently worked with our current World Snooker Champion Ronnie O Sullivan. For years Ronnie was seriously impaired due to his chimp getting out and running wild during tournaments. If you watched Ronnie throughout his last World campaign compared to previous, you would know that the chimp was firmly in his cage. 

But can Andy see it?

I fear not.

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David
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #78 on: June 07, 2012, 01:04 PM »
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Too many unforced errors...disappointing...but on a good note...let's have more of Jim Courier commentating...he has such insight and knowledge. I hope he does Wimbledon!
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #79 on: June 07, 2012, 01:07 PM »
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Andy manages himself and determines who he hires and fires. Consistent around him are his `mates` - there only for hitting and physiotherapy - when his real need is in the area of mental improvement. But can Andy objectively identify this? And whilst Lendl may try to - in some way - support this area, he is not a professional sports psychologist and that is exactly what is required right now.

All of us have a `chimpanzee` inside of our heads and it is our individual and personal ability to manage the chimp in our heads - especially whilst on court -  that will determine the level of effective application of all the rest of our skills in the pursuit of results. Andy - I afraid -  owns one of the biggest primates in the mens top ten and has got to get to grips with its obedience.

There`s a guy who recently worked with our current World Snooker Champion Ronnie O Sullivan. For years Ronnie was seriously impaired due to his chimp getting out and running wild during tournaments. If you watched Ronnie throughout his last World campaign compared to previous, you would know that the chimp was firmly in his cage.  

But can Andy see it?

I fear not.



It certainly wouldn't hurt him that's for sure.

I seem to remember him saying that he had infact used one before and he didn't like it. Can't remember his reasoning mind you.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #80 on: June 07, 2012, 01:08 PM »
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A mix of slice, exaggerated topspin and variations in pace would have got the job done today.

I think everyone agrees with you including Andy, as he was the one that said he would slice David out of the tournament before the match. But he didn't do it more than 2 times the whole match.
It is time for Andy to embrace the clay I think and do the whole S American/Mexican clay court swing.
He would only be missing Dubai and some crappy indoor tournaments & It will give him valuable preparation & experience. And perhaps when Nadal retires he shall have a shot at the French Open as he has been a real threat to Novak and Nadal on this surface already. And yes, he should have executed his game plan better to actually take Ferrer out, as he certainly could have, but there you go.
Positives are, a rest before Queens and avoiding another beating by Nadal in the semis.
I actually liked the way he was ultra aggressive although it became a little one note, the forehand is still definitely a work in progress and was found out, as any weaknesses are on the red stuff.
He still needs to trust on his forehand side more, his hesitation caused many of the UE's in my view.
Grass will be more supportive in this respect but he must keep at the aggressiveness regardless.
Andy will be one of the best players on dirt soon enough, we have to take into account in the mean time that he got to the quarters with some health niggles too.
There's no need to get all doom laden over a pretty reasonable clay court result.
A bit of perspective is all that is required on this.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme June 07, 2012, 01:13 PM ] IP Logged
robbie
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #81 on: June 07, 2012, 01:23 PM »
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I think I'm a bad person.
Every time I see this topic title, I read it as "Murray falls to the little Spanish *******."
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theycanbillme
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #82 on: June 07, 2012, 01:23 PM »
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Also, outside the top three, Murray is vulnerable to Berdych, Ferrer, Tsonga and Del Potro. Did you see the way Del Potro was hitting aganst Federer until his knee gave out? It was unreal, surreal, spectacular. It was like an XBox game on acid. Do you really think he'd have beaten Del P yesterday? The whole field are raising their game. Does he have the motivation just to keep his unenviable slot as leader of the 2nd tier?

You sound like me on here when I have a hangover.
Del Potro was federer's problem not Andy's and yes i think he would have done just fine against him whereas Federer was most fortunate to have gotten through as Del Portro was pratically one legged and had nothing in the tank. Very lucky.
Andy must, MUST adjust his game to a forehand based aggressive approach. He knows it, Lendl knows it, we all know it.
The Ferrer match proved that was what he is trying to do.
There were flashes of Murrayesque genius in that match shots that no one else does.
I trust Andy to make the transition and we should start to see the fruits of this labour come the AO.
Furthermore Andy can beat Novak over 5 sets and Nadal might be off the tour sooner than we think.
Keep the faith but lower the expectations so hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised soon enough.
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #83 on: June 07, 2012, 01:33 PM »
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Andy used a sports shrink when he had that awful wrist injury and was off for months.
Gr8  posting MM clap
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Emma Jean
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #84 on: June 07, 2012, 01:45 PM »
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I didn’t mind Andy going for his shots so the 59 unforced errors were somewhat expected but had he been totally connected to his game mentally as well, then I believe a lot of them would have been winners. But that wasn’t the main problem. It’s his serve that let him down mostly and it’s an alarming point. Again, this may go back to his mental aspect of things.

Andy needs to win a Slam this year if possible but RG is definitely not the place to start (the path is too critical and the worst), so in retrospect, a loss to Ferrer is much better than a loss to Nadal. Last year Andy lost 3 semi-finals to Nadal starting from RG, so no point losing to Nadal here in the semi and starting the trend all over again. They are bound to meet at Wimbledon given the predictable draw and the last time they played was in Tokyo, where Andy had a wonderful win. So knowing that he had lost the match last time to Andy (Nadal definitely thrives on the H2H), it’s not going to give him any mental advantage and that’s crucial…for Nadal. But the main problem still lies with Andy himself though.
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Hazybear
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #85 on: June 07, 2012, 01:47 PM »
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Ugh. I'm tired and sick to death of Andy bashing. The people come on here and say I'm just not gonna not support him anymore. Just gonna watch the tennis general Play. Grab copy. You do that since. You are no longer a Murray fan anymore. Go be a Fed fan. You can get to f**k.  As for the non tennis fans. Get lost.   I will be supporting Andy all the way unlike some pitifall fans on here.  I'm so pissed off.  I wasn't angry that he lost or anything. I was annoyed at some ppls reactions after the match.   Andy played well at RG  to reach the QF stage  I am quite proud of him   yay 

Having reasonable understandings that the longer Murray goes without winning a slam the fewer chances he has, and that unfortunately the top 3 are pretty much unbeatable, especially at the big events is not Andy bashing.

I would suggest that you owe Grabcopy an apology as he is most definitely a Murray fan and one who was disappointed in the result, because we know Murray can play better than he did.

As for you. It's fine to be a fan, but don't be so fanatical that you forget that you are supporting someone who is human and may not actually reach the targets that you want him too, however much he tries. Being realistic doesn't stop you being a fan. Just stops you being naive and overly sensitive to remarks about Andy.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #86 on: June 07, 2012, 01:55 PM »
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Interesting watching the post-mortem on itv.  Andy himself said he didn't use the slice because in his experience of playing against and practizing with df it doesn't work that well unless perfectly executed.  So it's clearly something he's thought about and must have felt he wasn't able perfectly to execute yesterday.
Jim C and Sam Smith both very positive about Andy. Sam thinks he's playing better clay court tennis than last year even though he didn't go so far this year - after all he had a much easier draw last year.  Jim thinks it's nonsense to write off his gs chances. 
Am surprised that Andy is saying he needs to get fitter because he got out of breath after the long rallies.  Hope he doesn't overdo the training.
I thought Jonathan Overend's blog was a very fair read:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanoverend/2012/06/prophetic_murray_accepts_he_is.html

Oh and welcome oracle. An interesting post but I fear this is a topic we've done to death on MW in the past!  My hope is that Lendl can help on the psychological side because he's gone through it himself and found a way to deal with it.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #87 on: June 07, 2012, 01:57 PM »
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Andy is not vulnerable to Del Potro. Delpo is a power player and Andy can always wear him down like Federer did the other day, but the same strategy doesn’t apply to Ferrer. And he’s only vulnerable to Ferrer on clay but the number of hard court and grass court tournaments combined are greater than the number of clay tournaments. And Ferrer is 5 years older than Andy, so in a couple of years, he’ll be all worn out. Andy will have to wait for his chances and they will come eventually. Ferrer is pretty much stuck with what he has now whereas Andy is still improving on clay, so that’s something to look forward to.

Now on to Berdych – Andy is most definitely vulnerable to him on all surfaces but it’s okay to have 1 or 2 genuine nemesis and it’s quite normal. Besdies, I don’t think Berdych will be able to keep up his leve for too long and eventually Andy will lead that H2H of theirs.

Andy is in a bit vulnerable position unlike Ferrer or Berdych or Del Potro as much is not expected from them, so obviously these elements play a significant part, when Andy faces a genuine challenge or in important matches and that hampers his level of play in general.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean June 07, 2012, 02:54 PM ] IP Logged
theycanbillme
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #88 on: June 07, 2012, 02:03 PM »
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Having reasonable understandings that the longer Murray goes without winning a slam the fewer chances he has, and that unfortunately the top 3 are pretty much unbeatable, especially at the big events is not Andy bashing.

I would suggest that you owe Grabcopy an apology as he is most definitely a Murray fan and one who was disappointed in the result, because we know Murray can play better than he did.

As for you. It's fine to be a fan, but don't be so fanatical that you forget that you are supporting someone who is human and may not actually reach the targets that you want him too, however much he tries. Being realistic doesn't stop you being a fan. Just stops you being naive and overly sensitive to remarks about Andy.

But Federer looked to me very beatable the last 2 matches and has been beaten on a number of key occasions by players out of the top 4.
I still think Andy should have beaten Novak at the AO, although he is still not ready ie aggressive enough to consistently beat Rafa on a hardcourt slam, however to his credit he has done it a couple of times before.
No I don't agree that the top 3 are unbeatable but i agree with you fully that just because you are objective or realistic about Andy it doesn't mean that you are somehow being treacherous & unworthy of being a real fan.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme June 07, 2012, 02:08 PM ] IP Logged
Ruthie
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Re: Murray falls to the little Spanish beast « Reply #89 on: June 07, 2012, 02:07 PM »
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Having reasonable understandings that the longer Murray goes without winning a slam the fewer chances he has, and that unfortunately the top 3 are pretty much unbeatable, especially at the big events is not Andy bashing.

I would suggest that you owe Grabcopy an apology as he is most definitely a Murray fan and one who was disappointed in the result, because we know Murray can play better than he did.

As for you. It's fine to be a fan, but don't be so fanatical that you forget that you are supporting someone who is human and may not actually reach the targets that you want him too, however much he tries. Being realistic doesn't stop you being a fan. Just stops you being naive and overly sensitive to remarks about Andy.

And I'd say I've been heartened by the measured tone of most of the postings - those of eg Grabcopy were more in sorrow than anger and sorrow is quite understandable.  It's when people start slagging Andy off as if he were letting everyone down on purpose that I get pissed off. But none of that this time I'm glad to say.
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