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Daisy
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #15 on: July 05, 2009, 11:03 AM »
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I'm wondering if the whole pusher thing has set like concrete in Andy's mind.  What I mean to say is that in the Junior's it's a great way to win matches.  Just wait for the opponent to fail and the point is yours.  However, in the real world, that game plan will only get you so far.  I am sure that Andy has won so many (Junior) matches and "lesser" ATP matches by playing that type of tennis, that he is going to take a lot of convincing to change his tactics altogether.
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eira_arian
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #16 on: July 05, 2009, 11:24 AM »
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I agree to some extent with Stefanki - he seems to have given a fairly balanced analysis - still praising all Andy's skills etc. It might be that he needs to change his game to win a slam. HOWEVER, I don't think we should dismiss Andy's game altogether - he's clearly capable of winning tournaments...
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Joe
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #17 on: July 05, 2009, 12:15 PM »
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I think Stefanki definitely has a point. Andy's style is enough to beat 90% of the tour on most days, but he can be overpowered and wait too long for errors that won't come. He definitely CAN be aggressive because he does it from the start whenever he plays Rafa. He needs to be able to switch to a more offensive game as soon as it becomes clear that the opponent isn't going to cough up the errors - think Gonzo at the French or Roddick on Friday. Sitting back and being forced to pass in a 5 set match is too much to ask unless he is absolutely on fire.

Stefanki is also right about him stepping into the forecourt - Fed and Nadal can kill
a point from there, whereas Andy usually allows it to continue one shot too many.

I hope Andy has finally realised this - we all know that he can adapt to this, but is his own style too deeply ingrained? Frown
I don't want to sound too down on him but I'm still really disappointed about Friday. Frown
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Mark
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 12:16 PM »
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It looked to me like he didn't have a plan B going into the Roddick match, that plan B should have been an aggressive strategy and then things might have been different. I suppose when you have a 6-2 record against someone, you don't really think about plan Bs.
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Daisy
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #19 on: July 05, 2009, 12:17 PM »
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It looked to me like he didn't have a plan B going into the Roddick match, that plan B should have been an aggressive strategy and then things might have been different. I suppose when you have a 6-2 record against someone, you don't really think about plan Bs.

Like I said a couple of posts ago ......it's not clear to me that he can entirely change the way he plays ........ it's ingrained.
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Vinnie
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #20 on: July 05, 2009, 12:25 PM »
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This time last year the press was full off what Andy had to improve in his game .He went away and worked on the areas that needed improving and is a much-improved player this year. He and his team did it last year, so I think they will be on top of it again this year, I think Murray will be more offensive from now on.   
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Joe
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #21 on: July 05, 2009, 12:26 PM »
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It looked to me like he didn't have a plan B going into the Roddick match, that plan B should have been an aggressive strategy and then things might have been different. I suppose when you have a 6-2 record against someone, you don't really think about plan Bs.

Precisely - with Andy it's fairly obvious what plan A is consequently what plan B should be. If the opponent is bewildered by the defensive slices and trickery then keep at it, but if it keeps coming back and, like Roddick, they are fashioning their own chances by coming to the net and putting away volleys or forcing Andy to miss passes, he needs to step it up and do the same himself. He can hit winners with the best of them, so he has to do it quickly when plan A isn't working.

What to work over the next few weeks until Montreal:

1) first serve - it's lethal when firing but too predictably goes missing for long periods at crucial times.
2) second serve - nuff said. Frown
3) a bit wide ranging, but just getting into the mindset of quickly becoming aggressive when needed. If he can introduce that then he will be unstoppable.

Friday was a massive, massive chance and one that he really should have taken. He mentally wasn't right for most of the match, his first serve percentage was probably a symptom of that. He still needs to toughen up in that respect in the Slams. As well as Roddick was playing, if Andy has serious aspirations of winning Slams then as 3 in the world he should be stepping up to overcome.
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Daisy
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #22 on: July 05, 2009, 12:28 PM »
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This time last year the press was full off what Andy had to improve in his game .He went away and worked on the areas that needed improving and is a much-improved player this year. He and his team did it last year, so I think they will be on top of it again this year, I think Murray will be more offensive from now on.   

He definitely needs to be and his match against Roddick just underlines that.
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Joe
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #23 on: July 05, 2009, 12:28 PM »
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This time last year the press was full off what Andy had to improve in his game .He went away and worked on the areas that needed improving and is a much-improved player this year. He and his team did it last year, so I think they will be on top of it again this year, I think Murray will be more offensive from now on.   

We can only hope so Vinnie and you're right that he learns well - this is his biggest challenge to adapt yet, though, fitness requires hard work, this will require a real shift in his mindset. I hope we see a different Andy at the sharp end in Montreal and Cincinnati. pray
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Vinnie
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #24 on: July 05, 2009, 12:32 PM »
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We can only hope so Vinnie and you're right that he learns well - this is his biggest challenge to adapt yet, though, fitness requires hard work, this will require a real shift in his mindset. I hope we see a different Andy at the sharp end in Montreal and Cincinnati. pray
Well when you look at Nadal working on his grass court game and Federer on his clay court game they have shown it can be done ,if Andy wants to be up there with the big boys he has to show he can do it as well.
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eira_arian
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #25 on: July 05, 2009, 12:36 PM »
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I'm still really disappointed about Friday. Frown

Cheer up hug
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #26 on: July 05, 2009, 01:14 PM »
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Stefanki is speaking the truth ; after all, he devised a gameplan that troubled Murray from point one to GSM.

However, Andy has all the right shots (apart from maybe a strong second serve) and therefore just has to choose his moments when to be aggressive and move forward and take the ball early.
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Mark
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #27 on: July 05, 2009, 01:50 PM »
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Jamie thinks Andy played too passive:

Maybe Andy was too passive with some of his play against Roddick.

In that situation, the guy who's going to come out on top, more often than not, is the guy who's going for his shots, being more aggressive and taking the initiative. And it was certainly Roddick, not Andy, who was doing that.
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janscribe
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #28 on: July 05, 2009, 02:23 PM »
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I think Stefanki definitely has a point. Andy's style is enough to beat 90% of the tour on most days, but he can be overpowered and wait too long for errors that won't come. He definitely CAN be aggressive because he does it from the start whenever he plays Rafa. He needs to be able to switch to a more offensive game as soon as it becomes clear that the opponent isn't going to cough up the errors - think Gonzo at the French or Roddick on Friday. Sitting back and being forced to pass in a 5 set match is too much to ask unless he is absolutely on fire.

Stefanki is also right about him stepping into the forecourt - Fed and Nadal can kill
a point from there, whereas Andy usually allows it to continue one shot too many.

I hope Andy has finally realised this - we all know that he can adapt to this, but is his own style too deeply ingrained? Frown
I don't want to sound too down on him but I'm still really disappointed about Friday. Frown
  Yes Joe, you and Stefanki are right. How many times have we urged Andy to be more aggressive as we watched him lose those important matches. That and his serve which sea-saws from brilliant to awful. The serve has improved a lot, although the second serve has a way to go. All Andy can do is to take the suggestion on board and see if it works. If it does - he'll know what to do in the future and it could mean a bucketful of GS triumphs.

We know all Andy wants to do is succeed right at the top and helpful suggestions from a coach who has already helped ARod through to a Wimby final in an unexpected fashion can only be objective and of value. I'm no expert but I've watched a lot of tennis this last 2/3 years and an element sometimes missing from Andy's game has been the knowledge as to when to be aggressive and when not - onwards and upwards, AM - you've got the talent, as Stefanki says.
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Joe
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Re: Murray must change his game to win a Slam « Reply #29 on: July 05, 2009, 02:58 PM »
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  Yes Joe, you and Stefanki are right. How many times have we urged Andy to be more aggressive as we watched him lose those important matches. That and his serve which sea-saws from brilliant to awful. The serve has improved a lot, although the second serve has a way to go. All Andy can do is to take the suggestion on board and see if it works. If it does - he'll know what to do in the future and it could mean a bucketful of GS triumphs.

We know all Andy wants to do is succeed right at the top and helpful suggestions from a coach who has already helped ARod through to a Wimby final in an unexpected fashion can only be objective and of value. I'm no expert but I've watched a lot of tennis this last 2/3 years and an element sometimes missing from Andy's game has been the knowledge as to when to be aggressive and when not - onwards and upwards, AM - you've got the talent, as Stefanki says.

Spot on, Jan. Can't help but feel that this is a crossroads for Andy, much like last year after he was hammered by Nadal at Wimby. He realised what he had to do then and worked hard to be become even better. What concerns me this time is that his post match comments suggest he doesn't feel he did much wrong. The aggression is actually already in place, it's knowing when to use it within a match, like Sir P says, that is crucial. I can recall a few times when he has started well but his opponent has found a bit of form and he has relied on them dipping again to see him through.

We must have faith though, he has five weeks until Montreal, plenty of time to refresh and clear his head to make the necessary improvements.
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