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Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY

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iamabritt
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #90 on: September 03, 2011, 11:42 PM »
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Well I think we should all be taking Rescue Remedy for every Andy match he he!
Well Tessie i ordered some and hope it works.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #91 on: September 04, 2011, 03:39 AM »
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If your too nervous then this mindset saps all you phyisical and mental strength and impacts on your ability to focus on the moment. I believe from a professional view point this is what was happening to Andy during those first two sets. I honestly thought he was going to succumb to them, but he found a way to deal with his nerves getting them under control and to a level where they began to work for him (kept him sharp and focused towards the latter stages of the match - where he incedentally played some of his best tennis), he was still probably nervous, but the difference between the first two sets and the last two was that he had found a way to deal with his nerves. He was controlling them. That in its self will put him in good sted for the remainder of this Championships. He is definately maturing and growing as we all watch.
Interesting comments, PT.

What concerns me about the nervousness is that this seems to have dogged Andy since the 2010 AO final, and certainly won't have been help by this year's.  To my knowledge he never seemed to be affected like this before the 2010 AO, and that showed in his tennis.  He said after his SF Wimbledon loss that he never wanted to go down the road of that sort of slump again.  So could it be the fear of this which is making him nervous, something I think most of us can relate to?

In a Slam he has the benefit of five sets in which to get on top of his nerves, and he succeeded against Haase - but when playing more high-profile players he may not even have the luxury of getting beyond the 3rd set.  In short, he needs to learn to control them right from the start of every match in every tournament - and I use the word control, because it's the element of nervousness (as has already been said) which is essential to give his game that extra edge.

Re the Bach Flower remedies - I know people who swear by them but, sadly, they did nothing for me.  What works for one person doesn't necessarily mean they'll work for another.  Of course, it would be worth giving them a try as they're perfectly natural and in no way drug-related, but I'd prefer to see him use some method of meditation before matches, and focussing on his breathing too is something which would help as he could also do it during the match itself, i.e. at change of ends.





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Caz
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #92 on: September 04, 2011, 06:56 AM »
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No, RR is not chemical in any way so I'm sure wouldn't be illegal.  I'm not on twitter but perhaps someone who is could suggest it to Andy?  It helps calm the nerves but without taking away any of the sharpness that good nerves can give you.  I've found it invaluable for things like driving test, job interviews.  And if you're abit down it can sometimes give you a bit of a lift.  Purely plant based.
I read Andy's tweet as a dig at the schedule ie that they have to play so many weeks.
Ruthie.....Loads of drugs are 'plant based'.......but they're still drugs.......Heroin [poppy]........Cannabis [speaks for itself]......Digitalis [Foxglove]......In fact, probably most of them! Whistle
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #93 on: September 04, 2011, 09:55 AM »
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I read Andy's tweet as a dig at the schedule ie that they have to play so many weeks.

I don't know exactly which tournaments particular players are "contracted" to compete in and I think there is a minimum.  However, if they "choose" to compete beyond this number, whether driven by ambition, ranking, money, fame, etc, then surely they have to accept the consequences.  Tournament directors obviously want to attract big names and probably pay big bucks to get them to enter, but if you can't stand the heat .............  Theirs is a short life span at this level and they can look forward to many years taking it easy, which many of us would love to experience.
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #94 on: September 04, 2011, 10:06 AM »
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If your too nervous then this mindset saps all you phyisical and mental strength and impacts on your ability to focus on the moment. I believe from a professional view point this is what was happening to Andy during those first two sets. I honestly thought he was going to succumb to them, but he found a way to deal with his nerves getting them under control and to a level where they began to work for him (kept him sharp and focused towards the latter stages of the match - where he incedentally played some of his best tennis), he was still probably nervous, but the difference between the first two sets and the last two was that he had found a way to deal with his nerves. He was controlling them. That in its self will put him in good sted for the remainder of this Championships. He is definately maturing and growing as we all watch.
I'm just catching up pn this thread and find your words of wisdom not only comforting but full of common sense (as always) PT. It's lovely to have someone on board who really knows what they are talking about and I know many of us really appreciate your comments. It gives a valid reason for these frightening lapses that Andy has - so many times he has just crumpled. But this time he found a way through and he has done this before on occasion so he obviously is able sometimes to master his nerves but why oh why can't he do it everytime?
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #95 on: September 04, 2011, 10:37 AM »
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FCR there is a certain number they have to play in, or are penalised.  The top players seldom play 250's. I think Queens is the only one Andy plays these days. Of course another important thing is to keep your ranking up so you're "protected" in tournaments.Soderling at no 5, did not have a good draw this year. I believe the players are now going to have an extra, is it two weeks, this Christmas.
Of course Rog and Raf have moaned about scheduling and then gone and played exhibitions Shrug
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #96 on: September 04, 2011, 11:28 AM »
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Interesting comments, PT.

What concerns me about the nervousness is that this seems to have dogged Andy since the 2010 AO final, and certainly won't have been help by this year's.  To my knowledge he never seemed to be affected like this before the 2010 AO, and that showed in his tennis.  He said after his SF Wimbledon loss that he never wanted to go down the road of that sort of slump again.  So could it be the fear of this which is making him nervous, something I think most of us can relate to?

In a Slam he has the benefit of five sets in which to get on top of his nerves, and he succeeded against Haase - but when playing more high-profile players he may not even have the luxury of getting beyond the 3rd set.

I totally Agree with your comments Aileen, i offer my own theory on why our Andy seems to be plagued by debilitating nerves at the start of his matches, sometimes we see he gets on top of them quickly and at other times like the match we witnessed yesterday it took him pretty much two entire sets to kind of get them under control - even then he was not hitting as freely as he was when he played his first round match? Interestingly enough, the scoreline after the first two sets was exactly the same scoreline that Haase beat Andy by when they played their first and only match to date. If it had been best out of three our Andy would have been knocked out, as it was he had the luxury of five sets to turn things around. Like Aileen states these nerves have only appeared to afflict Andy recently - since AO Final 2010, i believe its because our Andys profile has risen steeply since then and conversely the weight of expectation that others put on him to do well and also that which he puts on himself (to work harder), has grown expotentially. Although he openly admits that this pressure does not affect him, i suggest otherwise, and i point to evidence of some his matches as proof that they do affect him - his two most recent: Rd1 versus Rd2 (usopen 2011). He came into his round one match having never played his opponent before, had no historical reference points on him so to speak, so was more relaxed, although a little nervous at the start most would agree he was hitting his FH and BH really huge, my friends commented "wow Andy is hitting some bombs today" - he was in the zone, he was focused (his nerves were working with him). And then his round two match: played his opponent once before and lost 2-0, seen his opponent take Rafa to five sets and almost win! Andy was under no illusions he was going to have a battle on his hands, so before a ball had even been struck his adrenal glands were working against him flooding his body with its hormone - adrenalin. Making him anxious and tight. So by the time he walked out onto the court his focus would have been a little dulled and his body stressed, he would have been at the mercy of his own nerves. His FH and BH were not as penatrating as they were only 24 hours previous, and his timing off - he was quoted as saying his movement was not what it should have been during those first two sets (his nerves were working against him) - we all know in order Andy play to his potential he has to be comfortable, yesterday he was far from that, hence the up and down performance.

That said his match today, i believe we will see a completely different Andy - historically the experiences for him against Feliciano are good ones hug, he'll have many positives to draw from. Our Andy will hopefully go into this match more relaxed, although somewhat nervous - the weight of expectation will not be so great. hug
[ Last edit by psychological tennis September 04, 2011, 11:33 AM ] IP Logged
deb
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #97 on: September 04, 2011, 12:31 PM »
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That is so interesting P.T. and i agree the expectations are very high for Andy, i do think he will be able to get to grips hopefully with the nerves, and as you say let them work for him, and when he goes on to win, he will be in a different place knowing he can do it. Then i think in the next 3 years we will see a very different Andy. GOOD LUCK TODAY ANDY YOU CAN DO IT   yay
[ Last edit by deb September 04, 2011, 05:46 PM ] IP Logged
Ruthie
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #98 on: September 04, 2011, 12:54 PM »
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Some really interesting and helpful observations from PT and others - thanks.  I agree PT it's a very different psychology when you're moving up the rankings as the hunter from when you've become one of the hunted top guys.  I know I sound like a broken record but I so wish Andy would consult a sports psychologist or someone who specialises in relaxation techniques.  

I don't think it's either/or with RR and meditation or similar relaxation techniques.  Of course you're right Caz about chemical/plant based - silly me!   doh And of course it would be wise to check out RR with the authorities first but can't believe it would be banned.  And yes can see it won't work for everyone but it doesn't have any side effects so worth a try, even if it just has a placebo effect!

One other observation on the match: I think this may have endeared Andy once again to the NY crowd.  I suspect they were rather disenchanted after his somewhat tame exits the last 2 years.  But seeing the street fighting man scrapping for every point in the end is just the kind of spectacle they love.  And his sheer unadulterated joy at winning.  Of course should he play Donald Young, then that will count for little.  But it will be good to see Andy appreciated in NY again.  yay

Oh and bbh I think they're required to play all majors and masters aren't they if they're in the top whatever and a certain number of 500s?  I think it was Kevin M who said tennis is the most physically demanding of sports. And having to play different surfaces won't help.  For the top players who go deep in tournaments, they're playing alot of matches and for the lesser players who don't they'll be playing more tournaments to make up for it and to get the ranking points.
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lashurst
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #99 on: September 04, 2011, 01:10 PM »
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He could take the tincture or suck the pastilles.  I've just taken some drops myself.  He could tick these boxes and see what it recommends http://www.bachfloweressences.co.uk/pages/The-Remedy-Chooser.html

Thanks for your take on the tweet.
RE: Herbal medicines.
I'd just like to make everyone aware that herbal/natural remedies, especially Chinese variants should not automatically be considered safe and harmless, just because they are "natural". They are regulated in the UK.
Check out the Health Protection Agencys website to be safe:
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Safetyinformation/Generalsafetyinformationandadvice/Herbalmedicines/index.htm  

There's so much money to be made and more often than not the remedies are without documentation of either safety and/or effectiveness. I'm not against herbals per say, but sceptical. I would never buy Chinese medicines as the production has poor quality control. Besides and the torture of animals for the products is rife. Greed first- safety last.  
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #100 on: September 04, 2011, 02:35 PM »
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RE: Herbal medicines.
I'd just like to make everyone aware that herbal/natural remedies, especially Chinese variants should not automatically be considered safe and harmless, just because they are "natural". They are regulated in the UK.
Check out the Health Protection Agencys website to be safe:
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Safetyinformation/Generalsafetyinformationandadvice/Herbalmedicines/index.htm   

There's so much money to be made and more often than not the remedies are without documentation of either safety and/or effectiveness. I'm not against herbals per say, but sceptical. I would never buy Chinese medicines as the production has poor quality control. Besides and the torture of animals for the products is rife. Greed first- safety last. 
Bach remedies aren't anything like Chinese herbal medicines lashurst and I use the latter as prescribed by a practioner and they've done me the world of good.
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #101 on: September 04, 2011, 05:32 PM »
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Just wondering whether the "regulars" on here intend to watch the match live tonight.  I've set Sky Plus in case I nod off.  Being an OAP I don't have to worry about work tomorrow.
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #102 on: September 04, 2011, 06:25 PM »
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Just wondering whether the "regulars" on here intend to watch the match live tonight.  I've set Sky Plus in case I nod off.  Being an OAP I don't have to worry about work tomorrow.

I've done the same as you FCR - as i have to rise early for work, and in keeping with my superstitions, i'll watch Andy recorded.  Whistle
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iamabritt
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #103 on: September 04, 2011, 06:49 PM »
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Just wondering whether the "regulars" on here intend to watch the match live tonight.  I've set Sky Plus in case I nod off.  Being an OAP I don't have to worry about work tomorrow.
Well i will be watching ,am in Florida.
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Re: Murray nearly kicked in the Haase in NY « Reply #104 on: September 04, 2011, 06:56 PM »
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He's definately ready for tonight, have a read of this.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tennis-news/2011/09/04/us-open-andy-murray-vows-to-give-fans-something-to-shout-about-86908-23395633/
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