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Author Topic: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne  (Read 2843 times)
Ruthie
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #45 on: January 12, 2013, 10:35 AM »
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God help the player who has   Ken Loach as a coach!   lmao
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blueberryhill
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #46 on: January 12, 2013, 10:40 AM »
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Oh I dunno...apparently he gives a lot of freedom to actors and is very inspirational. Would certainly put them in touch with their feelings Whistle
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OldScotSupport
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #47 on: January 12, 2013, 11:07 AM »
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MH, your point is valid re sportspersons who succeeded in their respective sports, but were not too good as coaches / managers / etc.

A prime example in football is Alex Ferguson, who as a player was pretty useless, but as a manager and coach, he is one of the best in world football!

Moving on. It was definitely a brave decision of Andy to take on Ivan Lendl as his coach. It was the first time that Andy could NOT bully his adviser into submission. But taking on IL was a sign of Andy's rush to maturity. He has now grown from a boy into a man.

But this attitude of Andy lies in his oft repeated comment that his best tennis years would lie between his ages of 25 and 28. He has been proven accurate is his own personal assessment.

With regards to his chances againt Haase, who can be an awkward customer, he should be OK. Remember it's a 7-match tournament and Andy often starts very slowly particularly in his first round matches (Bogomolov Jr in USO).
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #48 on: January 12, 2013, 11:31 AM »
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@ TMH, but surely someone like Lendl or Tony Loche (spelling?), would get more respect, and therefore what he said would carry more weight, than x who wasn't very good. Especially at Andy's level? I also feel that someone like Andy would be more prepared to take Lendl's advice than x's too.
However, I do agree that being a gr8 player doesn't necessarily make you a gr8 coach.
Imagine Connors...  nervous
 
Oh yeah, of course. I'm not referring to being someone's coach, just those who criticise others for pointing out things like it's absurd your average tennis fan could know anything about the sport or see something a pro player can't.

Of course many ex-players go on to become fantastic coaches, but there are probably far more who fail.
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #49 on: January 12, 2013, 12:50 PM »
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A number of comms have said that Lendl isn't saying anything that new to Andy about being more aggressive but because of who he is Andy is now finally listening and acting. 

All Andy's former coaches were sacked because they told him to be more aggressive on court. If only he'd met Lendl five years earlier.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #50 on: January 12, 2013, 01:17 PM »
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All Andy's former coaches were sacked because they told him to be more aggressive on court. If only he'd met Lendl five years earlier.
I don't think he was ready for it 5 years earlier Nigel and I doubt Mr L was either
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #51 on: January 12, 2013, 03:30 PM »
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^ Yeah, Ruthie. The timing was just right for Andy and Ivan. I don't think either were ready before.
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Connor
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #52 on: January 12, 2013, 04:24 PM »
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In conclusion, Ivan Lendl is a bloody good coach, best Andy ever had. Be gone of Maclagen.
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #53 on: January 12, 2013, 04:33 PM »
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Yes, i agree with Ruthie and scotnadian. There's a Buddhist proverb which sums up my view  "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

I think it's brilliant that Lendl is on board right now. But equally, as Andy himself has said - he has benefitted from every coach he has had - they have all had their part to play on Andy's tennis journey. And they all speak highly of him now, which says a lot.
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caroline
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #54 on: January 12, 2013, 04:36 PM »
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Hi guys hope your all ok,im like all of you cant wait for the AO to start now.Iv been ill since November with a chest infection had four lots of antibiotics before i could shift it,but at last i feel well again.Just in time for the AO.I think Andys draw is ok could have been worse but i do think he will be up for the challenge whatever.Know i will be spending lots of my time on my laptop on this forum cant wait.Hope you all had a great christmas and a great new year.Had an ipad for christmas but not the same as useing the laptop i must say so my laptop for me it will be.
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #55 on: January 12, 2013, 04:58 PM »
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In conclusion, Ivan Lendl is a bloody good coach, best Andy ever had. Be gone of Maclagen.
I don't think it's that at all. Petchey put it best - different coaches for different stages of their career. Lendl's just the end man - the man to get him over the line and give him the belief.

I don't think Lendl would be very good an 18yo for instance. Whereas Petchey would be pointless for a Slam champion.

Andy appreciates all his previous coaches have done for him and he broke it off when he felt he needed to move on. He progressed under all of them (I think).
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #56 on: January 12, 2013, 05:16 PM »
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All Andy's former coaches were sacked because they told him to be more aggressive on court. If only he'd met Lendl five years earlier.

Ah, but be fair, do we know that really? I mean, we can guess that's why they were sacked, but we don't know. You could also argue that players sacking coaches isn't new, maybe each coach Andy has had has taken him as far as they could.

I honestly don't think Andy was ready to make such a big change to the way he had always played until Lendl came along. I've said it before, but I really do wonder if to a degree he was, and I mean this with the greatest respect, although I am aware it sounds a bit patronising, frightened of changing something that had basically worked for him for a long time.

It's actually funny, on the AO preview programme on Radio5 the other night they talked quite a lot about Andy's game, the changes he has made, etc. The point was made that basically he used to win a lot of matches by essentially playing the 'wrong' way, i.e. not being aggressive enough. However, the way he played was good enough to get through the vast majority. The problem was that it didn't work out for him against those at the top, at least not in the biggest situations. They made lots of other points about him needing to continue to be aggressive, continue to take the matches to the opponents etc, etc. The discussion made me think though, about that period of time when Andy tried to do a bit of both, playing 'his' game against those he could get through, and then trying to switch when coming across the others. The problem with that seemed to be that playing aggressively wasn't second nature when he was switching it on and off. Now it is more and more second nature.

What I think Lendl has done is helped Andy to realise that he needs to play like that with everyone. It seems to me that the way he has achieved that with Andy has been clever and understanding. In the past, judging by the way some have spoken, you could almost hear coaches saying to Andy 'you're not going to win playing like that.' Well, that's fine, but he was winning a lot of the time, so you can imagine him being reluctant to change at least, and doing the old two-fingered salute to certain people. However, going by what Lendl has been quoted as saying, his approach was to say to Andy that taking the ball on, taking charge earlier, would be better for him, because it would mean he was doing less running, thereby effectively prolonging his career. Instead of being vaguely threatening, doing the old 'you'll never do it' line, which, let's face it, Andy has had from all directions, Lendl has seemed to take an approach of what will be best for Andy, and lo and behold, it has worked. Sure, Andy might still get a bit passive sometimes, even now, but for the majority of the time now he is looking for opportunities.

I still think the key with Lendl is that he has actually played at the top level. He's been there, done it, and had the same sorts of issues as Andy in trying to win his first major. I really do feel that part of why it works for Andy and Lendl is that Lendl can tell Andy something and Andy will know that Lendl is telling him something that works. Andy might question, I'd think it strange if he didn't, it is his career after all, but he knows Lendl knows what he is talking about. I really do think Andy has benefitted greatly from being coached by someone who has been out there and done it. Lendl is also in a pretty good position to get how hard it was for Andy to bounce back from those major losses to win.

The other thing I think is that Andy and Lendl work so well because they aren't together all the time. I do think Andy has the best of both worlds now. He has a coach he appears to get on with and trust, but he also has times when he is with the team, but without Lendl. Again, I know there is an argument that Andy seems calmer when Lendl is there, but even so. To my mind the set up could help Andy, because whilst Lendl is supportive and so on, no one could accuse Andy of using him as a prop and no longer thinking for himself, which could happen if Lendl was there all the time.

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Ruthie
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #57 on: January 12, 2013, 07:01 PM »
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Yes, i agree with Ruthie and scotnadian. There's a Buddhist proverb which sums up my view  "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

I think it's brilliant that Lendl is on board right now. But equally, as Andy himself has said - he has benefitted from every coach he has had - they have all had their part to play on Andy's tennis journey. And they all speak highly of him now, which says a lot.
I like that proverb mp - very apposite.   
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #58 on: January 12, 2013, 08:13 PM »
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Ah, but be fair, do we know that really? I mean, we can guess that's why they were sacked, but we don't know. You could also argue that players sacking coaches isn't new, maybe each coach Andy has had has taken him as far as they could.

I honestly don't think Andy was ready to make such a big change to the way he had always played until Lendl came along. I've said it before, but I really do wonder if to a degree he was, and I mean this with the greatest respect, although I am aware it sounds a bit patronising, frightened of changing something that had basically worked for him for a long time.

It's actually funny, on the AO preview programme on Radio5 the other night they talked quite a lot about Andy's game, the changes he has made, etc. The point was made that basically he used to win a lot of matches by essentially playing the 'wrong' way, i.e. not being aggressive enough. However, the way he played was good enough to get through the vast majority. The problem was that it didn't work out for him against those at the top, at least not in the biggest situations. They made lots of other points about him needing to continue to be aggressive, continue to take the matches to the opponents etc, etc. The discussion made me think though, about that period of time when Andy tried to do a bit of both, playing 'his' game against those he could get through, and then trying to switch when coming across the others. The problem with that seemed to be that playing aggressively wasn't second nature when he was switching it on and off. Now it is more and more second nature.

What I think Lendl has done is helped Andy to realise that he needs to play like that with everyone. It seems to me that the way he has achieved that with Andy has been clever and understanding. In the past, judging by the way some have spoken, you could almost hear coaches saying to Andy 'you're not going to win playing like that.' Well, that's fine, but he was winning a lot of the time, so you can imagine him being reluctant to change at least, and doing the old two-fingered salute to certain people. However, going by what Lendl has been quoted as saying, his approach was to say to Andy that taking the ball on, taking charge earlier, would be better for him, because it would mean he was doing less running, thereby effectively prolonging his career. Instead of being vaguely threatening, doing the old 'you'll never do it' line, which, let's face it, Andy has had from all directions, Lendl has seemed to take an approach of what will be best for Andy, and lo and behold, it has worked. Sure, Andy might still get a bit passive sometimes, even now, but for the majority of the time now he is looking for opportunities.

I still think the key with Lendl is that he has actually played at the top level. He's been there, done it, and had the same sorts of issues as Andy in trying to win his first major. I really do feel that part of why it works for Andy and Lendl is that Lendl can tell Andy something and Andy will know that Lendl is telling him something that works. Andy might question, I'd think it strange if he didn't, it is his career after all, but he knows Lendl knows what he is talking about. I really do think Andy has benefitted greatly from being coached by someone who has been out there and done it. Lendl is also in a pretty good position to get how hard it was for Andy to bounce back from those major losses to win.

The other thing I think is that Andy and Lendl work so well because they aren't together all the time. I do think Andy has the best of both worlds now. He has a coach he appears to get on with and trust, but he also has times when he is with the team, but without Lendl. Again, I know there is an argument that Andy seems calmer when Lendl is there, but even so. To my mind the set up could help Andy, because whilst Lendl is supportive and so on, no one could accuse Andy of using him as a prop and no longer thinking for himself, which could happen if Lendl was there all the time.



some great points in there teejay.   Good posting!
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Iluvandy
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Re: Murray to open against Haase in Melbourne « Reply #59 on: January 12, 2013, 09:31 PM »
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Yes, i agree with Ruthie and scotnadian. There's a Buddhist proverb which sums up my view  "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

I think it's brilliant that Lendl is on board right now. But equally, as Andy himself has said - he has benefitted from every coach he has had - they have all had their part to play on Andy's tennis journey. And they all speak highly of him now, which says a lot.

I think that is exactly right MP.   There were signs at the end of 2010,  during the Asian swing, and just before Ivan came on board that Andy was looking to become more aggressive.   The timing was spot on.
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