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Author Topic: Murray to take on Federer in London  (Read 1893 times)
Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #45 on: November 18, 2009, 10:36 PM »
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Quote from: araminta on November 18, 2009, 08:45 PM
If it is up to Federer whether he wins or not against Andy why does he seem to lose more against Andy than against other players

Again, you misunderstand what Federer is saying. He is NOT saying Murray is easy to beat, just that beating him depends on how well Federer plays, not Murray, since Murray plays a defensive game. It could be other players are easier to beat.
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Clydey
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #46 on: November 18, 2009, 10:45 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on November 18, 2009, 10:36 PM
Again, you misunderstand what Federer is saying. He is NOT saying Murray is easy to beat, just that beating him depends on how well Federer plays, not Murray, since Murray plays a defensive game. It could be other players are easier to beat.

That view is fundamentally flawed, though. The same applies to any player who attacks. That's like Gonzalez saying that it's up to him whether or not he beats Federer simply because he is a much more attacking player.
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araminta
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #47 on: November 18, 2009, 11:02 PM »
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Sorry but I am totally confused now. Is Federer saying it is more difficult to play someone with a defensive game and surely beating anybody is going to depend on how well you play.
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Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #48 on: November 18, 2009, 11:03 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 18, 2009, 10:45 PM
That view is fundamentally flawed, though. The same applies to any player who attacks. That's like Gonzalez saying that it's up to him whether or not he beats Federer simply because he is a much more attacking player.

Not really, because Federer also attacks, even if it's generally less then Gonzalez. So it'll always depend on how both of them are playing. A red-hot Federer could beat a red-hot Gonzalez.
But a defensive player always depends on his opponents errors - so if his opponent isn't making the errors - that's it.
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Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #49 on: November 18, 2009, 11:05 PM »
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Quote from: araminta on November 18, 2009, 11:02 PM
Sorry but I am totally confused now. Is Federer saying it is more difficult to play someone with a defensive game and surely beating anybody is going to depend on how well you play.

He's not saying harder or easier, just that he doesn't worry about Murray's game since in matches between them, he believes it comes down to how he (Federer) is playing.
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Mark
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #50 on: November 18, 2009, 11:09 PM »
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Yamor, you should get a job as Federer's PR... because you are trying to put a spin on what he said to make out it was innocent when it was very arrogant and rude, which we know is typical of Federer these days.
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Clydey
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #51 on: November 18, 2009, 11:10 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on November 18, 2009, 11:03 PM
Not really, because Federer also attacks, even if it's generally less then Gonzalez. So it'll always depend on how both of them are playing. A red-hot Federer could beat a red-hot Gonzalez.
But a defensive player always depends on his opponents errors - so if his opponent isn't making the errors - that's it.

That's not true. You can't have it both ways. Gonzo is a much more attacking player. He pretty much tries to take the cover off every ball. If he hits the lines with them all, it's out of Federer's hands.

The other point is that Federer struggles to be aggressive with his backhand. Therefore, the match is not in his hands. If Murray keeps the ball on Federer's backhand, he cannot consistently hurt Andy.

It's such a siimplistic view to say that the more attacking player has the match in their hands. Players like Murray can drag the level of their opponent down. Hypothetically, you can say that if Federer went after every shot and was painting the lines constantly, the match is out of Murray's hands. In reality, that just wouldn't happen, though. And you can say the same for every player. There are players who, hypothetically, could blow Federer off the court if they were painting the lines for the whole match.
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Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #52 on: November 18, 2009, 11:12 PM »
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If you say so Mark...

Let me ask you something: if Federer would be asked to analyse players' games, and he said that Murray usually plays an ultra-defensive game, would you think bad of him?
Well, that is exactly what Federer is saying here!

I do agree that it would have been nicer for him to say he is scared of Murray, but I don't think he has to say that.
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Clydey
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #53 on: November 18, 2009, 11:14 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on November 18, 2009, 11:12 PM
If you say so Mark...

Let me ask you something: if Federer would be asked to analyse players' games, and he said that Murray usually plays an ultra-defensive game, would you think bad of him?
Well, that is exactly what Federer is saying here!

I do agree that it would have been nicer for him to say he is scared of Murray, but I don't think he has to say that.

That isn't what he's saying. He is saying that the match is always on his racquet. Using that logic, the match is on Verdasco's racquet when he plays Federer.
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Mark
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #54 on: November 18, 2009, 11:16 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on November 18, 2009, 11:12 PM
Well, that is exactly what Federer is saying here!
No, that's not what he is saying, that's what you are saying he meant.

Federer has a fantastic grasp of the English language so what he said is exactly what he meant and therefore you should not be needed to soften the impact. He really is that arrogant and rude towards Andy.
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Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #55 on: November 18, 2009, 11:26 PM »
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Quote from: Clydey on November 18, 2009, 11:10 PM
That's not true. You can't have it both ways. Gonzo is a much more attacking player. He pretty much tries to take the cover off every ball. If he hits the lines with them all, it's out of Federer's hands.

The other point is that Federer struggles to be aggressive with his backhand. Therefore, the match is not in his hands. If Murray keeps the ball on Federer's backhand, he cannot consistently hurt Andy.

It's such a siimplistic view to say that the more attacking player has the match in their hands. Players like Murray can drag the level of their opponent down. Hypothetically, you can say that if Federer went after every shot and was painting the lines constantly, the match is out of Murray's hands. In reality, that just wouldn't happen, though. And you can say the same for every player. There are players who, hypothetically, could blow Federer off the court if they were painting the lines for the whole match.

Yes, I do agree it's very simplistic, and I actually wouldn't say it is as black and white as I've been making out.

However, I still don't agree with you that what Federer's been saying applies to Gonzalez-Federer as much as to Federer-Murray.
Someone who relies totally on defence is totally reliant on his opponent's errors: i.e. on how his opponent is playing. Every match when Murray is playing to a decent standard will still depend on his opponent's level.
Any match-up without this sort of defensive player, will USUALLY depend on both players (although of course if a Gonzalez is painting the lines it won't).
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araminta
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #56 on: November 18, 2009, 11:28 PM »
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Was this an answer to a specific question put to Federer or did he just decide to give us the benefit of his opinion?
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Yamor
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #57 on: November 18, 2009, 11:30 PM »
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He was obviously asked if he's worried to face Murray. Mark wanted him to simply answer yes!
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Mark
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #58 on: November 18, 2009, 11:31 PM »
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I assume it's an answer to a question, these things always are but other players manage to give respectful answers where as Federer, who knows his English pretty damn well, fails at this when talking about Andy.
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Mark
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Re: Murray to take on Federer in London « Reply #59 on: November 18, 2009, 11:32 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on November 18, 2009, 11:30 PM
He was obviously asked if he's worried to face Murray. Mark wanted him to simply answer yes!
No, you actually gave a fairly good example of an answer in an earlier post. I'm pretty certain Federer is as capable as you at the English language so if he came off sounding arrogant and rude, that's because he was.
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