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Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill

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Aileen
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #180 on: May 08, 2011, 01:47 AM »
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Well he had said he'd be making phone calls before Madrid but clearly nothing has yet come of it, if he did.  In the meantime, I think 5 days with Cahill after Rome could be worth 5 weeks with a more mediocre coach.  And Cahill was watching yesterday's disappointing performance so should have plenty to work on.
He said before Miami that he'd be speaking to people ... but we're still waiting!  And I agree with Caz that, as it's now 10 months since he split with Maclagan, the whole thing has degenerated into something of a farce, and there have been a few scathing comments about it in the media, particularly following this year's post-AO slump.

However, I do agree that a even a brief spell with Cahill should be worth its weight in gold.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #181 on: May 08, 2011, 11:58 AM »
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He said before Miami that he'd be speaking to people ... but we're still waiting!  And I agree with Caz that, as it's now 10 months since he split with Maclagan, the whole thing has degenerated into something of a farce, and there have been a few scathing comments about it in the media, particularly following this year's post-AO slump.

However, I do agree that a even a brief spell with Cahill should be worth its weight in gold.
I've posted a story about this from BBC website on the news thread [as couldn't find this one at the time] which suggests Andy is happy with the coaching situation for the time being.  Personally I think if it's working well with Cahill - and he's really only just started working with him - he shouldn't rush to find a permament coach just for the sake of it.  He should of course keep looking and be open to the right person but I do think that working with Cahill (and other Adidas coaches) even on a PT basis between now and Wimbledon, as proposed, could be very beneficial. Moreover, it could help clarify for Andy what he needs in a permanent coach.

PS not surprised it's a sleepy owl Aileen the hours you keep!  Rolling Eyes
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Daisy
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #182 on: May 08, 2011, 12:16 PM »
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He said before Miami that he'd be speaking to people ... but we're still waiting!  And I agree with Caz that, as it's now 10 months since he split with Maclagan, the whole thing has degenerated into something of a farce, and there have been a few scathing comments about it in the media, particularly following this year's post-AO slump.

However, I do agree that a even a brief spell with Cahill should be worth its weight in gold.

Think I've said this before, but, maybe he's having difficulty finding someone who wants to work with him.  If I were a coach, I'd think twice (or more) about working with someone who apparently is not keen to heed advice.  What a waste of my time that would be.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #183 on: May 08, 2011, 12:19 PM »
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Have we considered (think ruthie touched on the point i am about to make) that after 10 months without a coach Andy is still not sure what he wants from one and how this new coach will fit in to his existing team. This delay in appointing a coach could also be inferred as Andy perhaps becoming too acustomed to his current status quo (liking the freedom of doing things his own way a little too much), hence the forced hiatus and rather protracted period he has been without a coach. Or it could be more simple explanation, he can't find anyone currently who wants to take him on for 35 weeks of the year full time?? So perhaps working on an adhoc basis with the Adidas coaches could possibly afford our Andy some clarity regarding his new coach appointment aswell as buying him some more time!
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #184 on: May 08, 2011, 12:32 PM »
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Have we considered (think ruthie touched on the point i am about to make) that after 10 months without a coach Andy is still not sure what he wants from one and how this new coach will fit in to his existing team. This delay in appointing a coach could also be inferred as Andy perhaps becoming too acustomed to his current status quo (liking the freedom of doing things his own way a little too much), hence the forced hiatus and rather protracted period he has been without a coach. Or it could be more simple explanation, he can't find anyone currently who wants to take him on for 35 weeks of the year full time?? So perhaps working on an adhoc basis with the Adidas coaches could possibly afford our Andy some clarity regarding his new coach appointment aswell as buying him some more time!
Yes I did PT though you've now spelt it out more clearly - thanks.  I agree that perhaps Andy faces a tension between the comfort of his current set-up and his recognition that he needs someone to help him move up to the next stage of  his career.  As I've said before somewhere personal relationships are clearly important to him.  I don't think it's just about having his way but about being comfortable with the people he has to spend so much time with and enjoying that time and having fun [which is surely a good thing?]. Remember there are usually no other British players to hang out with and there must be a lot of hanging out time at tournos.  So I can see how he might not want to risk jeopardising that and going back to the kind of existence he had before when just travelling with a coach,.  But I don't see why a coach would necessarily say he had to break up team Murray. After all he clearly needs a physio and fitness trainer.

Re people not wanting to work with him Daisy, I seem to remember Connors made a rather public bid for the job a few months back.  And others such as Cahill have always spoken v positively about him. Yes I'm sure Andy would be a challenge for a coach but imagine how satisfying it would be to be the one that helped Andy fulfil his true potential.
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Daisy
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #185 on: May 08, 2011, 12:38 PM »
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Re people not wanting to work with him Daisy, I seem to remember Connors made a rather public bid for the job a few months back.  And others such as Cahill have always spoken v positively about him. Yes I'm sure Andy would be a challenge for a coach but imagine how satisfying it would be to be the one that helped Andy fulfil his true potential.

I wasn't talking about people like Connors who will doubtfully be remembered for his coaching ability.

Also, it is in Cahill's best interests to speak positively about any tennis player given that he has the call for ESPN and is tied in with Addidas and their training facility - he's hardly going to badmouth the person or people who put money in his pocket - that would be suicide.

The type of person I had in mind is Stefanki who is a highly successful "A" list professional coach.  Imagine the potential damage to his image/career if it all went pear shaped, the damage to his earning power etc etc.

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Ruthie
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #186 on: May 08, 2011, 12:43 PM »
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I wasn't talking about people like Connors who will doubtfully be remembered for his coaching ability.

Also, it is in Cahill's best interests to speak positively about any tennis player given that he has the call for ESPN and is tied in with Addidas and their training facility - he's hardly going to badmouth the person or people who put money in his pocket - that would be suicide.

The type of person I had in mind is Stefanki who is a highly successful "A" list professional coach.  Imagine the potential damage to his image/career if it all went pear shaped, the damage to his earning power etc etc.


Fair enough Daisy.  But let's see.  We can speculate till the cows come home - which I guess is what we do on MW when no matches to dissect.  w00t
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #187 on: May 08, 2011, 12:55 PM »
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  As I've said before somewhere personal relationships are clearly important to him.  I don't think it's just about having his way but about being comfortable with the people he has to spend so much time with and enjoying that time and having fun [which is surely a good thing?].

I too like yourself Ruthie deduce from his numerous interviews both written and film that balanced relationships are important for our Andy, when you mention Andy being comfortable with those around him i agree that this is an important facet of any human relationship or is it? From my personal observations, occassionally its the human relationships that appear on the surface to be at odds with one another that produce the most striking results, this kind of uncomfortable or uneasy bond forces both parties to reflect inwardly on themselves a great deal, and usually results in new ways of expression, additionally it will sometimes facillitate a challenge to their own current status quo - driving new ways of thinking and responding, so although initially the relationship was built on uncertainty, it forges ahead with a deep rooted respect for the other - possibly yielding better results than a relationship that started from a base of common ground or from being very comfortable.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #188 on: May 08, 2011, 01:34 PM »
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I too like yourself Ruthie deduce from his numerous interviews both written and film that balanced relationships are important for our Andy, when you mention Andy being comfortable with those around him i agree that this is an important facet of any human relationship or is it? From my personal observations, occassionally its the human relationships that appear on the surface to be at odds with one another that produce the most striking results, this kind of uncomfortable or uneasy bond forces both parties to reflect inwardly on themselves a great deal, and usually results in new ways of expression, additionally it will sometimes facillitate a challenge to their own current status quo - driving new ways of thinking and responding, so although initially the relationship was built on uncertainty, it forges ahead with a deep rooted respect for the other - possibly yielding better results than a relationship that started from a base of common ground or from being very comfortable.

That's very interesting PT and I can certainly see that. But I also remember how unhappy Andy appeared to be after a while when working with Brad Gilbert and that was detrimental to his tennis -even though to begin with working with BG was so good for him.  So I can understand his reluctance to risk the easy-going relationships he has forged in team Murray.  The trick will be to somehow to hang on to some of that while injecting a more challenging perspective from a new coach.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #189 on: May 08, 2011, 02:00 PM »
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The trick will be to somehow to hang on to some of that while injecting a more challenging perspective from a new coach.

And that my dear Ruthie is the conundrum - A new coach has to challenge Andy taking him i believe out of his comfort zone, however that said not so far that he is paralysed by fear or resentment. There are instances like the example used Andy versus Gilbert where the conflict of the personalities cannot be overcome - what i find very interesting about this ex union was how in a short space of time Andy's game was transformed, i can only speculate that Andy with his still very young mindset at the time was not ready to be so introspective or was not ready for the mental challenge of adapting himself to anothers will, even though he surely must have understood what a positive impact this difficult union was having on his game. Although Andy openly says he does not want to go back to that kind of structure. I actually think he is in a different mindset now (more mature)? And so i believe can actually handle this type of union and so thus able to give it the proper perspective it deserves.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #190 on: May 08, 2011, 05:10 PM »
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And that my dear Ruthie is the conundrum - A new coach has to challenge Andy taking him i believe out of his comfort zone, however that said not so far that he is paralysed by fear or resentment. There are instances like the example used Andy versus Gilbert where the conflict of the personalities cannot be overcome - what i find very interesting about this ex union was how in a short space of time Andy's game was transformed, i can only speculate that Andy with his still very young mindset at the time was not ready to be so introspective or was not ready for the mental challenge of adapting himself to anothers will, even though he surely must have understood what a positive impact this difficult union was having on his game. Although Andy openly says he does not want to go back to that kind of structure. I actually think he is in a different mindset now (more mature)? And so i believe can actually handle this type of union and so thus able to give it the proper perspective it deserves.

As usual a lot of sense PT.  Reflecting further though I wonder whether it's not so much about Andy being unwilling to step outside his comfort zone - after all remember he did this pretty convincingly as a boy when he left his family to go to Spain.  Rather is it more that he wants to be in control, which he is under his current set up but might not be with a more experienced, senior coach?  What do you think?
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #191 on: May 08, 2011, 09:37 PM »
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If Andy gets a coach. He will be paying his wages. If he will not listen to a coach he has employed and is paying then he is stupid.  I think he has to listen more and take advice. We or most of us know he is quite
stubborn. All of us sometime in our lives have to make hard decisions. Perhaps Andy has to change some of
of his preconcieved thoughts. This may take time but he will have to do so if he wants to futher his tennis
career.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #192 on: May 08, 2011, 09:41 PM »
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If Andy gets a coach.

That's right ... first, he's got to find one who wants to work with him.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #193 on: May 08, 2011, 10:02 PM »
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http://sport.scotsman.com/tennis/Leon-Smith-supports-Andy-Murrays.6764015.jp - interesting comments from someone who actually has worked with Andy.
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Re: Murray to temporarily work with Darren Cahill « Reply #194 on: May 09, 2011, 12:08 AM »
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As usual a lot of sense PT.  Reflecting further though I wonder whether it's not so much about Andy being unwilling to step outside his comfort zone - after all remember he did this pretty convincingly as a boy when he left his family to go to Spain.  Rather is it more that he wants to be in control, which he is under his current set up but might not be with a more experienced, senior coach?  What do you think?

Andy stepped outside of his comfort zone and went off to Spain at 15 years old, because he knew it was the best thing for the development of his career, in other words he went because HE wanted to, it was his future career so to speak that he would be controlling, shaping its course, fashioning his skills - even though he was stepping out of his comfort zone he was still able to maintain control over his life and future by actively making the descision to travel to spain, no one making it for him. So Ruthie your right when you suggest that it might be about control with Andy! without wanting to disrespect his current set up, the way its structured Andy obviously has complete autonoumy. I think its fair to say he is the Kingpin in this structure. I suspect that Andy will not relinquish such control easily, even perhaps when faced with the obvious........
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