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Murray vanquished by history

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Aileen
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #165 on: July 14, 2012, 02:47 AM »
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Oh me. I've kept away for my own and everyone else's good.  Just about stopped howling now. However - I do think this final was a breakthrough for Andy.  He showed a very positive side and he's getting there, and I was thinking he may not, ever.  If there is any justice in the world this man will win big. 
Oh wow!  Encouraging to see a change of mind there Elly. Smile

I was speaking to a dedicated Andy hater yesterday and she dismissed him as a poor loser and a cry-baby.  As she's a Fed fan I took pleasure in reminding her of the good loser that Fed isn't.  She didn't like that! Very Happy
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Coldmarek
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #166 on: July 14, 2012, 03:27 AM »
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Oh wow!  Encouraging to see a change of mind there Elly. Smile

I was speaking to a dedicated Andy hater yesterday and she dismissed him as a poor loser and a cry-baby.  As she's a Fed fan I took pleasure in reminding her of the good loser that Fed isn't.  She didn't like that! Very Happy

It reminds me of myself and my brother
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blueberryhill
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #167 on: July 14, 2012, 06:57 AM »
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Oh wow!  Encouraging to see a change of mind there Elly. Smile

I was speaking to a dedicated Andy hater yesterday and she dismissed him as a poor loser and a cry-baby.  As she's a Fed fan I took pleasure in reminding her of the good loser that Fed isn't.  She didn't like that! Very Happy



Your friend had most conveniently forgotten Fed's tears at AO then. Selective memory loss, I'd say. Whistle
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teejay1
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #168 on: July 14, 2012, 02:50 PM »
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Nearly a week on and I'm still gutted for Andy, but I think we have already seen some signs that are positive for the weeks and months ahead.

Throughout Wimbledon fortnight Andy played some amazing tennis. On the whole his first serve percentage was high, points won behind his second serve was a complete revelation. His forehand was vastly better. Maybe he needs to grow in confidence with it. I did think in the early stages of the Baghdatis match that he was being a bit cautious and didn't trust the forehand in the difficult, windy conditions, but still. Andy's backhand slice was gorgeous as well.

It is hard for me to put this in to words that will make sense, but for me there was a sense in Andy's matches that he was looking for a way in, not a way out, of situations. He didn't seem so afraid to miss and moved on and regrouped quickly when he made mistakes.

I don't think we saw a full on Andy rant all through the tournament. Sure, there were tight moments, a couple in the final probably stand out, but I don't know, Andy seemed less inclined to beat up on himself. There were no negative self-commentaries that I recall, and it has just occurred to me that not once did a stupid commentator who thinks we are all five feel the need to apologise for Andy's language. I'm not sure whether that suggests Andy didn't swear or that he just wasn't heard, and I should say that I've never been bothered by his language, it is competitive sport after all, but it does imply that he is being more positive.

One of the biggest moments for me came during the Cilic match. I think it was at 5 all 30 all in the first set, but correct me if I'm wrong. I was just so knocked out by what Andy did I lost track. Anyway, it was all getting just a bit tight, but there was a sense that if Andy just held himself together the momentum would be with him. Andy was coming up to serve and just before he set himself up to do so he just said 'come on now'. It wasn't a roar to the crowd or anything like that, it was just a simple, calm collection of himself, as if he sensed that the time was now to get a grip on the match. Well, he came through, and on the resumption the next day he served out of his mind. It was all so good to see, so positive. In that second part of that match I was amused to hear John Lloyd laughing at how well Andy was serving. He wasn't being nasty, but he just couldn't believe it. I'm not sure Andy could either!

Against Ferrer I thought Andy handled himself well too. That one was always going to be a fight, but Andy didn't go away, didn't give up, and coped with it all rather better than me!

I suppose the semi with Tsonga could have been straight sets, but I think Andy's wobble in the third was excusable. He was on the brink of history and for a moment I think he felt it, but I also think that up to then it had all been just a bit too easy (with respect to Tsonga) and a momentary loss of concentration was somewhat likely. I will just never forget Andy's reaction when he knew he had won. I blubbed! The one thing that did surprise me was Tsonga saying he doesn't like to play Andy. I know their head to head is vastly in Murray's favour, but it seemed a weird thing to admit to before a major semi final. It didn't say a lot for Tsonga's confidence.

I've already talked about the final, but what I will also say is that I was pleased to hear about him going to the recording of Mock The Week. Now sure, he (and Kim of course) may well have arranged to go before Wimbledon, but in going I'm sure he would have had an idea that his name would come up. At the risk of making too much out of it, I just think it is good that within a few days of a loss in such  a big situation he was able to go and have a laugh about it. That suggests to me that he is getting stronger, can take all the positives from the tournament as a whole and the final in particular, and that he is in a place now where he won't allow his disappointment to transfer in to a run of bad form.

The exciting thing I think is that the Lendl/Murray arrangement appears to be working. They've only been working together for seven months, less really if you realise Ivan doesn't go to all the tournaments, and there have been changes for the better in Andy's game and mind. It points to something good might only be around the corner - if you can suggest Flushing Meadows is around the corner!

I also think Andy has shot down any idea of a huge gap between him and the top three. Now I'm no expert, I don't see the game in technical terms as such, but to my mind it looks now like it is down to tiny margins, those tiny elements that are keeping Andy away from a major win. One or two may be in his game, one or two may be in his head, but the progress he has made indicates that he can't be far off.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #169 on: July 15, 2012, 12:08 AM »
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Good posting!  Andy himself has said that winning a Slam is all down to tiny margins now, and I believe that with Lendl's help, plus the huge additional support he knows he now has, that these margins, whether technical or mental - and I feel they are largely mental - can be overcome.   Also, given that programmes like MTW thrive on current news items, I do feel that this was their way of paying him tribute.
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ljs
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #170 on: July 15, 2012, 12:50 AM »
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I was wondering that too Aileen , with Andy now knowing how much support he has and how alot of poeple have changed their opinion of him , will it make a difference in his psyche ?
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Aileen
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #171 on: July 15, 2012, 01:07 AM »
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I really hope and pray so, ljs.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #172 on: July 15, 2012, 12:04 PM »
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I feel that Lendl has already helped achieve a difference in his pysche.  He looked like he believed he belonged in a GS final last Sunday - for the first time I felt.  And although he lost for me it didn't feel like a mental thing though having had a tougher draw than smugfed probably meant he had less left in the tank both physical and mental.
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #173 on: July 15, 2012, 12:10 PM »
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Completely agree, Ruthie. It's exactly what I thought while watching the match, there was no mental weakness.
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teejay1
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #174 on: July 15, 2012, 02:37 PM »
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Hi All,

I loved the way Andy came out for the final. I know it is tradition that they don't carry their own bags on final day, but I loved seeing him look so ready for it. no jacket, racket in his hand like that. I also quite enjoyed the moment when the umpire called time and Andy kept Federer waiting for a few seconds. I have to say that I wondered if that was a bit of Lendl's input. It seemed like it. I can just about remember Lendl as a player (I vividly remember his 'grass is for cows comment!) and that just seemed like a Lendl thing.

He really did look like he belonged out there, and he didn't look especially nervous at the start.

I just think the difference is that someone like Smugfed has got positive experiences to draw from in major finals if there are tight situations, because he has been there and done it. Andy has the weight of expectation on his shoulders and has had a lot of negativity from outsiders to deal with up until now. But I do think that if people do support him (support, not pressure) and he continues to grow in his belief (he just looks like he believes more now) in himself, the door will open for him.
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #175 on: July 15, 2012, 04:26 PM »
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Hi All,

I loved the way Andy came out for the final. I know it is tradition that they don't carry their own bags on final day, but I loved seeing him look so ready for it. no jacket, racket in his hand like that. I also quite enjoyed the moment when the umpire called time and Andy kept Federer waiting for a few seconds. I have to say that I wondered if that was a bit of Lendl's input. It seemed like it. I can just about remember Lendl as a player (I vividly remember his 'grass is for cows comment!) and that just seemed like a Lendl thing.

He really did look like he belonged out there, and he didn't look especially nervous at the start.

I just think the difference is that someone like Smugfed has got positive experiences to draw from in major finals if there are tight situations, because he has been there and done it. Andy has the weight of expectation on his shoulders and has had a lot of negativity from outsiders to deal with up until now. But I do think that if people do support him (support, not pressure) and he continues to grow in his belief (he just looks like he believes more now) in himself, the door will open for him.
I also liked the way he was jumping up and down. Someone said it made him look nervous but I think it was his way of dealing with the nerves and something I've noticed Rafa does.  Andy has talked about his legs getting heavy when he's nervous and I'm sure this helped keep them loose. Again probably Ivan's advice.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #176 on: July 15, 2012, 05:38 PM »
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Andy has the weight of expectation on his shoulders and has had a lot of negativity from outsiders to deal with up until now. But I do think that if people do support him (support, not pressure) and he continues to grow in his belief (he just looks like he believes more now) in himself, the door will open for him.
Rod Laver said recently that no British man will win Wimbledon until the weight of expectation is lifted from his back.  I wouldn't go quite as far as that.  Andy may well win it, but I don't think it'll be his first GS win.  I feel that the AO or USO are better prospects for that.

Although Andy said that, for the first time he felt that he "belonged" in a final, I still got the feeling that he didn't totally believe he could win this match - something the roof delay wouldn't have helped - but after the way he played here, having had such a battle to come through the tournament, and against Djokovic in the SF in Melbourne, I do think that belief is growing and that it will now be nurtured by all the added support Andy knows he is now getting.

I also liked the way he was jumping up and down. Someone said it made him look nervous but I think it was his way of dealing with the nerves and something I've noticed Rafa does.  Andy has talked about his legs getting heavy when he's nervous and I'm sure this helped keep them loose. Again probably Ivan's advice.
Ferrer does it too.  It does make a player look really up for it rather than being a sign of nervousness.  Incidentally the term "heavy legs" is actually a medical one which refers to a physical condition due to poor circulation, but, from experience, I do know what he means, i.e. when you feel nervous your gluteal and leg muscles tighten, so your legs feel stiff and like they don't quite belong to you, so jumping up and down might help not only by loosening the muscles but giving his mind something to focus on.


 
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #177 on: July 15, 2012, 06:15 PM »
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Just read this thread in one go and really enjoyed it.  So nice to see so much positivity on the back of a loss.  Although it is nowhere near as important to most tennis fans, I'm looking forward to the Olympics now.  It'll be interesting to see how much support Andy gets now.
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Aileen
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #178 on: July 15, 2012, 07:13 PM »
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Just read this thread in one go and really enjoyed it.  So nice to see so much positivity on the back of a loss.  Although it is nowhere near as important to most tennis fans, I'm looking forward to the Olympics now.  It'll be interesting to see how much support Andy gets now.
With so many overseas visitors he probably won't get much support on court, but I'd hope all British tennis fans will be rooting for him whether they like him or not, because the Olympics are the one occasion when the Brits really do get behind their own. 
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Ruthie
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Re: Murray vanquished by history « Reply #179 on: July 15, 2012, 09:10 PM »
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Although Andy said that, for the first time he felt that he "belonged" in a final, I still got the feeling that he didn't totally believe he could win this match - something the roof delay wouldn't have helped - but after the way he played here, having had such a battle to come through the tournament, and against Djokovic in the SF in Melbourne, I do think that belief is growing and that it will now be nurtured by all the added support Andy knows he is now getting.
 

 

I didn't realise Andy himself had said that about for first time feeling he belonged in GS final because that's exactly what I felt watching him ie that he looked as though he felt he belonged.  I think he did believe he could win at the outset but I fear once he lost 2nd set having played so well in it and the roof came over that belief was probably dented.  Hardly surprising really.
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