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Topic Summary
Posted on: July 16, 2012, 03:54 PM
Posted by: teejay1
Hi All,

I know I'm dipping in to this topic really late, as a newcomer (although I feel like I've been here ages, because you've all made me welcome and I feel so comfortable to express views openly) but the one thing no one has mentioned in terms of Barcelona, or indeed any of Andy's clay performances this year, was his back.

I don't like to harp on about it, and I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm making excuses for Andy, but I do think his back issue is relevant. Clay is arguably the toughest surface to play on because matches can be such a grind. On the grass and the hard courts points tend to be quick, matches likewise (generally) and those surfaces are easier on the body than the clay.

I do think Andy's movement isn't quite as good on the clay as on the grass and hard courts even when he is fit, but with an injury as well, in retrospect I don't think the clay was ever going to be easy this year. I suppose it could be argued as a setback, based on how good last year was, but still.

What I do think is that Andy's performances on the clay have been pretty consist, even if they haven't reached the heights of last year, with a few quarter final places, including Roland Garros.

I do think in general this year Andy has had the odd quirky early round loss, but I can honestly say I'm not worried about that, although I realise I'm saying this off the back of a great Wimbledon run. I'm sure the back has been relevant, and perhaps in the early part of the year it did take a while for Lendl's input to have a real effect as well, but what I do think is that there has been a bit of a shift in Andy's focus since Lendl came on the scene. It seems to me that Andy is now going all out in the majors, making them what his year is about. There was a great run in AO, where he took Djokovic close in the semi's (at five all in the fifth I screamed so loud I wet myself!!), a run to the quarter finals at the FO, which is arguably not Andy's best surface anyway, and he has never beaten Ferrer on the clay either, and now a wonderful performance at Wimbledon. It makes me excited for the US.

In term of the loss to Raonic, I just think it was one of those things to be honest. It was the first time they've met, and Raonic, if I recall, was having a good run that week. My question is whether or not Raonic will cut it in the majors, i.e getting towards the business end, and I must say I've yet to be convinced. He just seems to run a bit hot and cold to me, a bit like Dologopolov, who can be brilliant, but can also be quite dire. I would also question Raonic's fitness. He just looks a bit lumbering to me, a bit too 'well built.'
Posted on: May 04, 2012, 11:48 AM
Posted by: Buhweet
Well, I've read all the comments and now, here's my opinion for what it's worth! All of you who know me, will know that I've never played tennis in my life and know nothing about the technicalities of the game! All I can tell you is that Andy Murray made me fall in love with the game......his game in particular, with his lobs and dropshots and those wonderful passes down the line! God he was 'famous' for those lobs! When I see him these days, he doesn't look like he's playing his 'natural' game........A lot of the time, he doesn't even look comfortable on court! Apart from the consistancy of his serve, I've never thought his 'game' needed fixing......only his 'mental attitude' to his game, which is what I'd hoped Mr. Lendl would help him with! And what's all this about needing a set to warm up? Where would Linford Christie have been if he'd used the start of 'his game to warm up?......Last....that's where! I notice Andy is capable of coming out 'all guns blazing' when he's up against one of the top three! If he can do that, he can do it every time! That's all part of the 'mental attitude' as well! Mr. Lendl.......if you're reading this, please help sort Andy's 'head' out and leave his 'game' alone! I'm expecting to get shot down in flames by all you who understand a lot more about the game than I do, and that's ok......I won't argue with you, but that's my opinion and nobody will change it!
I agree with the head thing, if he comes on the court like he's carrying a big rock on his back, he can't be enjoying his day at work. Get back to "playing" the game and enjoy your work Man! It's as much a head game as it is tennis skill. He's got the tennis skills, but his head at times is where the sun never shines! Ivan the terrible needs to pass the cold nerves of steel impression he gave on to Andy and let him play his game...tuned up a bit of course!
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 07:15 PM
Posted by: jdonald
On clay it is easier to set up the point and come in. There is more time as the court is slower, he should do this obviously not to confident to do it. He really should start adopting this tactic he would win so many points instead of hitting continually from the baseline.

Come on Andy, I want you win the fench salem
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 03:30 PM
Posted by: tamila
I would say that Andy was consistent in the fact that he has made it to 5 consecutive semi-final GS. He does seem to do better at the end of the season barring injury.  The phrases 'player to beat' etc have been said so often about players who do not live up to it.   The commentators say this far too quickly when a player has a win over a top player.  Cilic was supposed to be a potential GS winner and what has happened to him.
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 01:29 PM
Posted by: blueberryhill
Last year, when Tsonga was playing well, people, not here, were using phrases like "player to beat" "slam winner" "Fed and Tsonga top 2" blahblah
I would say last year, out of the top 10, only Nole and Rafa were consistent day in day out, and even those two faded after USOpen.
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 07:55 AM
Posted by: tamila
I agree that Andy should come into the net more often as he has such great hands (look at the match against Llodra).  It was a joy to watch.  Raonic is still inconstistent and can not carry off the serve every match just like Isner.  Tsonga has just lost to Tommy Haas and only sereved 2 aces.  I haven't seen aany nasty remarks about him.  Andy will get better on clay as tiome goes on.
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 07:39 AM
Posted by: Katie
OK guys.......Nobody is suggesting that Andy should come into the net 'all the time'.....just more often.......like he used to do and also like his opponents often do.......usually winning the point in the process! Too often these days, it seems like he's quite content to slog it out from the baseline and wait for the other guy to 'gift' him the point, instead of going in and taking it! He seems to be able to do this when he's getting desperate though.......as in the second set against Raonic! If he had done that from the start, I doubt he'd have lost the match!

I agree Caz. Smile There's lots of rallies that go on for longer than they need to because Andy's so reluctant to come in and volley. But when he does he usually wins the point as he's very talented at the net.
Posted on: May 03, 2012, 07:03 AM
Posted by: Caz
OK guys.......Nobody is suggesting that Andy should come into the net 'all the time'.....just more often.......like he used to do and also like his opponents often do.......usually winning the point in the process! Too often these days, it seems like he's quite content to slog it out from the baseline and wait for the other guy to 'gift' him the point, instead of going in and taking it! He seems to be able to do this when he's getting desperate though.......as in the second set against Raonic! If he had done that from the start, I doubt he'd have lost the match!
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 10:00 PM
Posted by: Katie
i am sorry, none of you have any idea what it takes to come to  the net all the time. You have to set the point up to do that and we do not know the pace of the ball coming to Andy to what he can do with it,

You only know this if you play the game, and that is at our level, think of this at his level.  It is not easy. The first serve is very important and that is why raonic beat Andy. Serve is the key in Singles. If all is going to song then he will play well.

In singles you ahve to have a good serve at all times and that does set up the next point.

It definitely wouldn't be a good idea for Andy to come into the net all the time - you're right it would be extremely difficult to do that. Serve and volley would be very risky. But there's definitely room for Andy to come into the net more often, and it doesn't always have to be high-risk tennis either but is a good way of shortening rallies when the time is right.

I agree that the serve is key to Andy's success, though in the Raonic match he did serve well - it was the first serve return which wasn't working that well.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 07:24 PM
Posted by: jdonald
 i am sorry, none of you have any idea what it takes to come to  the net all the time. You have to set the point up to do that and we do not know the pace of the ball coming to Andy to what he can do with it,

You only know this if you play the game, and that is at our level, think of this at his level.  It is not easy. The first serve is very important and that is why raonic beat Andy. Serve is the key in Singles. If all is going to song then he will play well.

In singles you ahve to have a good serve at all times and that does set up the next point.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 11:20 AM
Posted by: Ruthie
Yes I'd definitely say that for Andy the key is to get the mix right between touch/finesse and power. He won't win slams by pushing his forehand and waiting for unforced errors from his opponent, but nor can he hope to be able to outhit players like Rafa and Novak from the baseline in terms of pure power and accuracy. He's definitely making good progress though I think. He's hitting his groundstrokes with more power generally and uses the variety he has in his game to good effect. Luckily Andy is very natural at the net and could win many more points there, hopefully he will start coming to the net a bit more often in his matches to shorten some of the points.
Yes I'd like him to come to the net more Katie, which is one reason I think it's a good idea for him to play dubs sometimes.  Johnnie Mac has likened his hands to his, which is the highest compliment in my book.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 10:43 AM
Posted by: Katie
Caz @7.14.  Have been thinking some more about your posting in light of latest interview from Andy I've read - I forget which one now as there have been so many recently.  In it he said that the Andy of today would beat the Andy of a few years ago and that the game has developed so much in past few years.  Do people think it's possible that the beautiful game that Caz describes just isn't enough now to win especially against the likes of Raonic but also against the other very top players?   Like Caz I claim no tennis expertise.  If I'm right the challenge for Andy is to develop his game in the way necessary to win in today's game but to combine that with the wonderful touch and finesse that marked his earlier game (and of course is still there sometimes).  Views welcome!

Yes I'd definitely say that for Andy the key is to get the mix right between touch/finesse and power. He won't win slams by pushing his forehand and waiting for unforced errors from his opponent, but nor can he hope to be able to outhit players like Rafa and Novak from the baseline in terms of pure power and accuracy. He's definitely making good progress though I think. He's hitting his groundstrokes with more power generally and uses the variety he has in his game to good effect. Luckily Andy is very natural at the net and could win many more points there, hopefully he will start coming to the net a bit more often in his matches to shorten some of the points.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 09:42 AM
Posted by: ChrisMac
It's a shame that today's game is the way it is. Last night I watched a tennis classic IW 2007, Andy v Tommy Hass, Andy won in 4 sets last one a tiebreaker, 10-8 or was a 10-9   doh  Anyway you should have seen him, fire in his belly making lots of volleys, hitting straight down the line, that's why I fell in love with Andy and he became my favourite tennis player. Pure excitement, gave you goosebumps, just magic. I really miss the Andy of old.
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 09:25 AM
Posted by: Ruthie
Caz @7.14.  Have been thinking some more about your posting in light of latest interview from Andy I've read - I forget which one now as there have been so many recently.  In it he said that the Andy of today would beat the Andy of a few years ago and that the game has developed so much in past few years.  Do people think it's possible that the beautiful game that Caz describes just isn't enough now to win especially against the likes of Raonic but also against the other very top players?   Like Caz I claim no tennis expertise.  If I'm right the challenge for Andy is to develop his game in the way necessary to win in today's game but to combine that with the wonderful touch and finesse that marked his earlier game (and of course is still there sometimes).  Views welcome!
Posted on: May 02, 2012, 06:41 AM
Posted by: Caz
I love you Caz ... hug
  lmao I love you too Aileen!  hug
Posted on: May 01, 2012, 08:38 PM
Posted by: jdonald
Let us all keep fingers cross and see what happens in the next few weeks. Could be miracles. I am hoping so!!
Posted on: May 01, 2012, 08:12 PM
Posted by: Murray Magic
Great posting Caz, totally agree.
Posted on: May 01, 2012, 07:37 PM
Posted by: Aileen
I'ts nice to know I'm not alone after all!
I love you Caz ... hug
Posted on: May 01, 2012, 04:43 PM
Posted by: scotnadian
Ooooh.. Caz... all fired up.  clap
Posted on: May 01, 2012, 04:43 PM
Posted by: Caz
Thank you too JDonald!