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Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion

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tamila
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #30 on: April 30, 2012, 09:15 AM »
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I think there is definitely a fear of some sort.  It may be both the fears put forward on here. 

I have just watched both the second set with Raonic and the whole match against Troicki.  I do believe that had Andy won the second set he would most probably have won the match.  He really was getting the measure of Raonic's game which does seem to remind me of Isner.  Isner is all serve with some good shots occasionally thrown in.  Raonic is 21 and has won 3 titles I wonder if by the time he is 24 he will have won 22.  Andy had 14 by the time he was 21.  We have heard so many tiimes about these up and coming youngsters but they never materialise.

It is a shame that Andy cannot come out and play as he did against Troicki more often.  He was really using his whole arsenal and had 81% first serves and won, I think, 92% on those serves.

I am sure he will move up the rankings this year and maybe get a GS, if not this year it will be next year.
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Ruthie
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #31 on: April 30, 2012, 09:20 AM »
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Hi Everyone, been a member for a while, but generally a reader rather than poster, thanks all for your comments, and to the news team.

Agree this is a good article.  I think Murray does believe in himself however I also think that he is in general more worried about not losing than he is desperate to win. Hence his drops in performance after winning a first set.  It's not a point I've seen talked about too much on MW.  I may have missed it though, or is it just me that thinks this?

Hi Malteserman welcome to the world of posting!
I have also thought this about Andy for some time ie that the hatred of losing is stronger than the joy of winning for him.  I think he said as much or something like that in his autobiography,  So Aileen I don't think this is just a recent thing though perhaps earlier when he was soaring up the rankings there wasn't the fear of failing, which perhaps there is now.
And interestingly not long ago the comms were discussing this and going through top 10 players and I think Andy was the only one they felt for sure was motivated more by not wanting to lose rather than by wanting to win. There was one other for whom they thought it was probably the case but I forget who that was now.  What that means for his game I don't know.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #32 on: April 30, 2012, 12:27 PM »
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The origins of the  quote are with Connors, but I can't remember which way round it is.
Andy's 3 bad losses in GSs must be in his psyche and I too feel some of the fires gone out. Fear of injury is there too- that dreadful wrist injury that scuppered him early on.
As he gets older it'll  get harder and harder to shake all these doubts off and win the big one. That's why I feel he must do it in the next two years. Fingers crossed
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theycanbillme
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #33 on: April 30, 2012, 01:32 PM »
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Andy Murray will win slams of that I am confident.
But either way he will get what he deserves as it is not natural talent that is stopping him.
Rather its his own mental attitude.
He has been told what for 5 years now by everyone everywhere to be more assertive and take the initiative and often he still is playing too far behind the baseline when it is obvious that everyone and I mean everyone bar Andy Murray was correct in this respect.
And yet it has only really sunk to him in over the last few months!
He is somewhat dysfunctional right now and has been for a while, but for the sake of tennis and our nerves as well as his happiness he must take on board what lendl tells him and he must have a more positive proactive approach and finally achieve his full potential.
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Ruthie
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #34 on: April 30, 2012, 05:33 PM »
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Andy Murray will win slams of that I am confident.
But either way he will get what he deserves as it is not natural talent that is stopping him.
Rather its his own mental attitude.
He has been told what for 5 years now by everyone everywhere to be more assertive and take the initiative and often he still is playing too far behind the baseline when it is obvious that everyone and I mean everyone bar Andy Murray was correct in this respect.
And yet it has only really sunk to him in over the last few months!
He is somewhat dysfunctional right now and has been for a while, but for the sake of tennis and our nerves as well as his happiness he must take on board what lendl tells him and he must have a more positive proactive approach and finally achieve his full potential.
Dysfunctional?   That's rather harsh isn't it?  I prefer Peter Fleming's analysis:  Andy rose up the ranks and has had great success with the game he learned to play when young ie as a counterpuncher who relied on his speed around the court.  The very fact he decided to take on Lendl, imo, showed that he realised he needs to change.  But knowing it intellectually and being able to put it into practice are two different things especially when it means breaking away from such well established patterns, which will have taken root in his body.  So perhaps we shouldn't be surprised when it's a case of one step forward two steps back at times.   Lendl has commented on his surprise at how quickly Andy learns but again it takes time to put into practice.  While I too feel disappointed that Andy seems to be doing worse on clay this year than last (that first match against Troicki aside) I tell myself I need to be patient during what is a period of transition.   And both he and Lendl emphasised from the start that the fruits of their collaboration will not be seen for some time.
So why is Andy dysfunctional  tcbm?

Oh and I've now seen the match stats on bbc website and Andy's stats aren't bad at all.  Clearly he didn't have the answer to Raonic but from various accounts I've read it would seem that he was beginning to work him out in the 2nd set.  And as Fleming said if someone is serving 150mph bombs at you, they are just about unplayable.  And that also makes the game ultimately boring.  So as I've said before I don't look forward to Raonic climbing the rankings.
[ Last edit by Ruthie April 30, 2012, 05:51 PM ] IP Logged
Tessie
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #35 on: April 30, 2012, 06:00 PM »
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Well said Ruthie!
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theycanbillme
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #36 on: April 30, 2012, 06:16 PM »
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By "somewhat dysfunctional" I mean he is clearly not operating at his usual level at these kind of tournaments, there have been problems with movement, the backhand, forehand since that Dubai final with Federer. As i have also said before, Andy might get worse in the short term before he gets better. So i agree with the gist of your post.
I also said Andy was getting his head around Raonic's game so maybe its also to do with a bit of bad luck so far.
But certainly there have been some shockers recently, can't see him peaking until Queens at the earliest.
Which of course would be the best situation anyway all things considered.
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jdonald
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #37 on: April 30, 2012, 06:46 PM »
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it was bad luck. Did you see the match against Ferrer he was not playing the same game.  Andy was unlucky, 93% first serve in, remarkable, nothing you can do. not the same against Ferrer. a change person. Andy wlll be fine lets all be patient Lendl will sort him out,  I know the man!
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Aileen
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #38 on: May 01, 2012, 12:40 AM »
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I have also thought this about Andy for some time ie that the hatred of losing is stronger than the joy of winning for him.  I think he said as much or something like that in his autobiography,  So Aileen I don't think this is just a recent thing though perhaps earlier when he was soaring up the rankings there wasn't the fear of failing, which perhaps there is now.
That reiterates what I've been saying - that the younger players whizzing up the rankings have nothing to lose, and Andy was no exception - so we should remember when he too was either taking out top players or giving them a hard time.  Add that to fear of injury and it's quite a toxic mix.

While I too feel disappointed that Andy seems to be doing worse on clay this year than last (that first match against Troicki aside) I tell myself I need to be patient during what is a period of transition.   And both he and Lendl emphasised from the start that the fruits of their collaboration will not be seen for some time.
I really don't know why people keep saying this because (a) in MC he was only one round short of where he got to in 2011, and might have had a better chance of beating Berdych had he felt happier about the condition of the court and not had the misfortune of witnessing Benneteau's serious fall the previous day, and (b) he didn't play in Barcelona last year because of injury.  Only once the clay-court season is over can proper comparison be made.
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Caz
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #39 on: May 01, 2012, 07:14 AM »
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Well, I've read all the comments and now, here's my opinion for what it's worth! All of you who know me, will know that I've never played tennis in my life and know nothing about the technicalities of the game! All I can tell you is that Andy Murray made me fall in love with the game......his game in particular, with his lobs and dropshots and those wonderful passes down the line! God he was 'famous' for those lobs! When I see him these days, he doesn't look like he's playing his 'natural' game........A lot of the time, he doesn't even look comfortable on court! Apart from the consistancy of his serve, I've never thought his 'game' needed fixing......only his 'mental attitude' to his game, which is what I'd hoped Mr. Lendl would help him with! And what's all this about needing a set to warm up? Where would Linford Christie have been if he'd used the start of 'his game to warm up?......Last....that's where! I notice Andy is capable of coming out 'all guns blazing' when he's up against one of the top three! If he can do that, he can do it every time! That's all part of the 'mental attitude' as well! Mr. Lendl.......if you're reading this, please help sort Andy's 'head' out and leave his 'game' alone! I'm expecting to get shot down in flames by all you who understand a lot more about the game than I do, and that's ok......I won't argue with you, but that's my opinion and nobody will change it!
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jdonald
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #40 on: May 01, 2012, 08:48 AM »
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You are quite right. His game was super nothing needs changing except consistency with his serve and a more attacking 2nd serve.

It is his whole mental attitude, surely Lendl could do this but it will take time.I know it will tick soon.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #41 on: May 01, 2012, 09:49 AM »
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Caz @7.14 Good posting!
Does need to play on the baseline though, i.e take shots earlier.
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Ruthie
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #42 on: May 01, 2012, 10:14 AM »
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I agree with much of what you say Caz, together with the reservations expressed by others + the need to strengthen his fh especially down the line and use his net skills more.  But yes would be a shame if he somehow lost what was so wonderful about his game in the shift to a more attacking form of play.  I'm hoping it will all balance out as he makes the transition.
Re clay season Aileen: I guess I'm remembering back to that wonderful SF against Nadal at MC last year and perhaps because of that and his match against Nole in Rome (was it?) my expectations for the clay season were higher this year than they'd been in the past - hence the feel of disappointment.  
tcbm - as you say we're not that far apart but still think 'dysfunctional' is too strong and damning a word to use.  It would have been true this time two years ago when he was booed off the court in MC [and it was that which brought me to MW in despair!] but not to describe his game now.
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ChrisMac
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #43 on: May 01, 2012, 11:11 AM »
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I too have read all the comments on here, and I agree with most but not all comments. Not really anything to add as all has been said. Thanks!
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Caz
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Re: Raonic Rampant against Scottish Lion « Reply #44 on: May 01, 2012, 12:43 PM »
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Caz @7.14 Good posting!
Does need to play on the baseline though, i.e take shots earlier.
       lmao I can't disagree with that BBH.......just as long as he doesn't take root on it!
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