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Topic Summary
Posted on: June 24, 2013, 07:13 AM
Posted by: blueberryhill
^ agreeing with EJ here. That's what I feel. Andy's surge at the start of the fifth, just did for him.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 09:00 PM
Posted by: Emma Jean
I did not think Nole was all spent in the 5th set at all. He made it look like as if he was. In truth, he didn't think he could win that so he was mentally beaten at that point far more than anything else. He lasted almost 6 hours against Nadal in the same year at AO and what gave him hope to win that one was the fact that, hard is and will always be Nadal's weakest surface and Nole always knew he was the better player on that surface against Nadal. Against Murray, he couldn't think that as it's also Andy's best surface and Andy was the one who was 2 sets to none up in that match, and looked like a man on a mission in the 5th set. So no, I don't think Nole was beaten because he was tired but he was beaten because he didn't believe he could win that match against that motivated Murray in the 5th set.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 05:53 PM
Posted by: TheMadHatter
I'd be a bit surprised if Delpo gets to the SF ahead of Ferrer if they play each other - their head-to-head is 2-6 to Ferrer and he beat Delpo pretty easily at Wimbledon last year. I know neither like grass particularly, but I'd give Ferrer the edge there. I actually think Delpo could be in trouble in R3 against Dimitrov, but I hope I'm wrong.

I'd have preferred Andy to draw Ferrer in the SF than Fed/Rafa but I'm glad he avoided Haas in round 4 and Berdych in the QF. All in all, it's a fair draw I think - to win Wimbledon players usually have to beat at least one of Rafa and Federer, and if he does that he really does have a great chance in the final. But one match at a time first... Smile 
Not to mention Del Potro is still recovering from that virus and didn't look particularly great at Queens. Ferrer has to be favourite in that match-up.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 05:02 PM
Posted by: Katie
I didn't know Ferrer's h2h against Delpo, not that it surprises me really. I'd forgotten all about their match at Wimbledon last year too. My mind was elsewhere Smile.

Ferrer's pretty good on the grass. I imagine he prefers the clay, but he plays well on the surface. I was just concerned for him this year, wondering if RG had taken a lot out of him. I also think he has had some ups and downs this year, some highs, but also some sharp dips in form. It makes me wonder if he might be a wee bit vulnerable to an upset.

I think with Delpo it depends on how he is physically. That potential match with Dimitrov might be worth a look, but I do wonder about Dimitrov in a best of five just at the moment. If Delpo isn't quite right Dimitrov does have a chance, or if he can make Delpo move a bit.

I'm quite pleased with Andy's draw. To be honest I don't think it's worth worrying about. As you say, it's one match at a time at the moment.

It also strikes me that it has worked out much the same as usual for Andy. When he was four in the world he would have had to go through two of the others to win. Now, he's got Nadal or Federer, and then possibly Djokovic. The difference now is that I honestly believe Andy can do it, and I think he believes it too, but first things first.

That's a good point about Ferrer and the effect RG might have had on him. I think he'll be ok as realistically he won't have gone into the final expecting to win, so he won't have had to deal with the disappointment on missing out on a really good chance to get a slam. If he'd lost to Tsonga in the SF, I think that would've had more of a negative effect. He seems to be playing his best tennis at the big tournaments this year, so hopefully that'll continue here too.

I agree about Delpo - if he's feeling physically ok and is in good form then he'll probably do quite well. But I think Dimitrov's got the sort of game that can throw Delpo off the rhythm he likes. I'd like Delpo to have a good Wimbledon though so that he can improve in the race rankings - it'd be a real shame if he failed to make the tour finals.

I think you're right about Andy now really believing he can do it. The Olympics made such a difference to his confidence - hopefully he can draw on those positive memories during the Wimbledon fortnight. Smile
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 04:55 PM
Posted by: teejay1
My thoughts are the same as Andy's, one game at a time and focus on that.  I would leave worrying about other players for his team to deal with, to do otherwise is to put unnecessary pressure on him.  I wonder if it is not a bit disrespectful to all other players when we talk about Andy, Rafa, Noval and the Fed reaching the semi and finals? 

I suppose you could say it's disrespectful, but on the other hand it's understandable too. Mind you, this year it will be either Federer or Nadal reaching the semi's, it couldn't be both - unless Andy pulls off the amazing feat of beating them both at the same time Smile. That would be worth seeing Smile.

You're right though, upsets can and do happen. I remember watching Nadal losing to Rosol last year. The comms just couldn't believe it.

I doubt Andy would see us believing he can get to the semi and final as pressure. I suspect that would be the sort of pressure he'd like.

Posted on: June 23, 2013, 04:38 PM
Posted by: Iris
My thoughts are the same as Andy's, one game at a time and focus on that.  I would leave worrying about other players for his team to deal with, to do otherwise is to put unnecessary pressure on him.  I wonder if it is not a bit disrespectful to all other players when we talk about Andy, Rafa, Noval and the Fed reaching the semi and finals? 
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 04:22 PM
Posted by: teejay1
I'd be a bit surprised if Delpo gets to the SF ahead of Ferrer if they play each other - their head-to-head is 2-6 to Ferrer and he beat Delpo pretty easily at Wimbledon last year. I know neither like grass particularly, but I'd give Ferrer the edge there. I actually think Delpo could be in trouble in R3 against Dimitrov, but I hope I'm wrong.

I'd have preferred Andy to draw Ferrer in the SF than Fed/Rafa but I'm glad he avoided Haas in round 4 and Berdych in the QF. All in all, it's a fair draw I think - to win Wimbledon players usually have to beat at least one of Rafa and Federer, and if he does that he really does have a great chance in the final. But one match at a time first... Smile 

I didn't know Ferrer's h2h against Delpo, not that it surprises me really. I'd forgotten all about their match at Wimbledon last year too. My mind was elsewhere Smile.

Ferrer's pretty good on the grass. I imagine he prefers the clay, but he plays well on the surface. I was just concerned for him this year, wondering if RG had taken a lot out of him. I also think he has had some ups and downs this year, some highs, but also some sharp dips in form. It makes me wonder if he might be a wee bit vulnerable to an upset.

I think with Delpo it depends on how he is physically. That potential match with Dimitrov might be worth a look, but I do wonder about Dimitrov in a best of five just at the moment. If Delpo isn't quite right Dimitrov does have a chance, or if he can make Delpo move a bit.

I'm quite pleased with Andy's draw. To be honest I don't think it's worth worrying about. As you say, it's one match at a time at the moment.

It also strikes me that it has worked out much the same as usual for Andy. When he was four in the world he would have had to go through two of the others to win. Now, he's got Nadal or Federer, and then possibly Djokovic. The difference now is that I honestly believe Andy can do it, and I think he believes it too, but first things first.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 04:06 PM
Posted by: Katie
I can see both sides of the discussion about Djokovic's draw.

I'm not buying his 'I haven't got an easy draw' line either, but I would agree with Jonathan Overend in suggesting he might not get all his own way either. He has got one or two who could cause him problems, Berdych, if he is in the mood, (he rarely is against Djokovic) could, but I don't think Berdych moves as well on the grass as he would need to. I'm in two minds about Delpo, given his recent form. If he is up for it I could see him making the semi's ahead of Ferrer, but I'd want to see him a bit before I say that for sure. However, if Delpo gets hot he could be trouble for Djokovic, but again I'd question his movement a bit. He's moves well for a big guy, but he can look a bit off-balance at times. The thing about Delpo is that he would need to remember he has beaten Djokovic before on grass, and can do it again.

The danger for Djokovic, assuming he makes the final, is getting there undercooked. I do think that is possible. Sometimes I do think there is a danger in it being a bit too easy for the top players. I'm inclined to think they all need a bit of a test at times, to bring the best out. That's why I think Andy's draw is all right.

I'd be a bit surprised if Delpo gets to the SF ahead of Ferrer if they play each other - their head-to-head is 2-6 to Ferrer and he beat Delpo pretty easily at Wimbledon last year. I know neither like grass particularly, but I'd give Ferrer the edge there. I actually think Delpo could be in trouble in R3 against Dimitrov, but I hope I'm wrong.

I'd have preferred Andy to draw Ferrer in the SF than Fed/Rafa but I'm glad he avoided Haas in round 4 and Berdych in the QF. All in all, it's a fair draw I think - to win Wimbledon players usually have to beat at least one of Rafa and Federer, and if he does that he really does have a great chance in the final. But one match at a time first... Smile 
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 02:14 PM
Posted by: teejay1
According to me, Nole has an easy draw, no denying that. He will make it to the finals. I'm quite happy with Andy's draw so I'm not gonna be sulking because Nole has an easier draw. 

I don't think anyone is sulking. I think we're all just looking at the possibilities.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 02:13 PM
Posted by: teejay1
I can see both sides of the discussion about Djokovic's draw.

I'm not buying his 'I haven't got an easy draw' line either, but I would agree with Jonathan Overend in suggesting he might not get all his own way either. He has got one or two who could cause him problems, Berdych, if he is in the mood, (he rarely is against Djokovic) could, but I don't think Berdych moves as well on the grass as he would need to. I'm in two minds about Delpo, given his recent form. If he is up for it I could see him making the semi's ahead of Ferrer, but I'd want to see him a bit before I say that for sure. However, if Delpo gets hot he could be trouble for Djokovic, but again I'd question his movement a bit. He's moves well for a big guy, but he can look a bit off-balance at times. The thing about Delpo is that he would need to remember he has beaten Djokovic before on grass, and can do it again.

The danger for Djokovic, assuming he makes the final, is getting there undercooked. I do think that is possible. Sometimes I do think there is a danger in it being a bit too easy for the top players. I'm inclined to think they all need a bit of a test at times, to bring the best out. That's why I think Andy's draw is all right.

Posted on: June 23, 2013, 01:05 PM
Posted by: The Gnome
I'm not buying into his "every draw is tough, i'm not lucky with this draw" spiel that he's currently spouting around the internet. Inwardly i bet he's laughing his insides off, if Novak doesn't make the final I will be very surprised.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 12:36 PM
Posted by: Sabine
According to me, Nole has an easy draw, no denying that. He will make it to the finals. I'm quite happy with Andy's draw so I'm not gonna be sulking because Nole has an easier draw. 
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 12:31 PM
Posted by: sidtypical
Jonathan Overend writing about Andy and Novak's draw.
'Djokovic has avoided his 3 main rivals so, in theory,has a much easier draw, but I expect his main challenges to come from Tommy Haas in round 4,either Richard Gasquet or Tomas berdych in the quarters and Juan Martin del Potro in the semis.
so while Djokovic has the better draw in terms of being in Ferrer's half, I actually expect him to have the tougher matches than Murray in the first week and a half.'
I tend to agree with him. There could be a different finalist than the one expected on this side of the draw.

This is a good point. I think the fact that Djoko has already had to defend the quality of his draw, suggests a wee bit of added pressure due to expectation. I would have hated Andy to have this draw, with the media having him 'in the final' before a ball is struck.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 12:20 PM
Posted by: Katie
Jonathan Overend writing about Andy and Novak's draw.
'Djokovic has avoided his 3 main rivals so, in theory,has a much easier draw, but I expect his main challenges to come from Tommy Haas in round 4,either Richard Gasquet or Tomas berdych in the quarters and Juan Martin del Potro in the semis.
so while Djokovic has the better draw in terms of being in Ferrer's half, I actually expect him to have the tougher matches than Murray in the first week and a half.'
I tend to agree with him. There could be a different finalist than the one expected on this side of the draw.

Me neither. While Djokovic is obviously the favourite to reach the final, I wouldn't be surprised if Berdych was the finalist. He plays well on grass (though not last year...) and on grass can avoid the long rallies that usually hurt him in matches against Djokovic and Ferrer. He was really unlucky not to have won Wimbledon back in 2010 - usually beating two members of the big 4 is enough to win a slam.
Posted on: June 23, 2013, 10:41 AM
Posted by: michelle
Jonathan Overend writing about Andy and Novak's draw.
'Djokovic has avoided his 3 main rivals so, in theory,has a much easier draw, but I expect his main challenges to come from Tommy Haas in round 4,either Richard Gasquet or Tomas berdych in the quarters and Juan Martin del Potro in the semis.
so while Djokovic has the better draw in terms of being in Ferrer's half, I actually expect him to have the tougher matches than Murray in the first week and a half.'
I tend to agree with him. There could be a different finalist than the one expected on this side of the draw.
Posted on: June 22, 2013, 09:04 PM
Posted by: ProdigyEng
Luke is right.

Djoker was spent.


He tried so smack a forehand just like he did vs noserer on 2011 uso on mp vs andy but  it did not work.
Posted on: June 22, 2013, 06:45 PM
Posted by: flowerpower
Looks like Monday, Wednesday and Friday each week flower power

Thank you, good to know!
Posted on: June 22, 2013, 05:15 PM
Posted by: teejay1
Watch the last set again. Novak was absolutely dead about halfway through that set. Could barely move after Murray moved 4-2 up.

Djokovic was quoted, as I recall, as saying that he knew Andy had won at 4-2 up in the fifth, so he must surely have known he didn't have in him to fight back. The problem is that he's looked half dead like that before, so Andy did well to focus on what he was doing, not allowing himself to get distracted by Djokovic looking like he was about to sieze up down the other end.

I think it was a combination of things that helped Andy. He kept his head in the fifth, that has to have helped him.

I still feel that the way Andy moved Novak around early on in the match laid the groundwork for what came later. If you watch the first couple of sets, Andy didn't seem to let Djokovic settle much, he was constantly making him run. He's always known that if you can take away Djokovic's legs you can get him, and he did it beautifully at the USO.

Djokovic had to play catch up in the second set too. Andy could have filleted him there, but Djokovic came back. He was all right doing it then, but I do think that overturning that two set lead to draw level again, took a lot a lot out of Djokovic, physically, but mentally too.

Ultimately I think Andy dug deeper when he needed to. I think he found something in himself that night that he might not have realised was there before. I know it's the most obvious thing to mention the bathroom break, but I do think that was big for Andy, to be able to tell himself like that that he wasn't going to let it (losing a major final) happen again, and give himself that talking to when he needed it. I think that bodes well for the future.
Posted on: June 22, 2013, 05:00 PM
Posted by: teejay1
you could try auctioning him on Rafa's website?

I might try, but I still prefer the adoption option. Trouble is, he's 56, so I don't suppose anyone would have him Smile.

I'm consoling myself with the knowledge that I love him dearly, but he knows nothing about the game. I mean, he prefers WTA! For some reason he thinks they play 'proper' tennis!
Posted on: June 22, 2013, 03:51 PM
Posted by: blueberryhill
@TMH
Don't want to labour the point but Andy suddenly accelerating away would have had a demoralising/energy sapping effect.