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Mark
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Re: Quotes « Reply #30 on: January 28, 2008, 12:01 PM »
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We should always use Andrew Murray in future then.
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measdale
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Re: Quotes « Reply #31 on: January 28, 2008, 12:02 PM »
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Quote from: ljsmall on January 28, 2008, 11:59 AM
Informal being the important word.

That's not even a sentence .. Very Happy

How can we take you as any kind of authority on the language ... ?
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ljsmall
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Re: Quotes « Reply #32 on: January 28, 2008, 12:02 PM »
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I said fair enough. I understand why you use the informal in this case. Still doesn't make it any less irritating!
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Mark
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Re: Quotes « Reply #33 on: January 28, 2008, 12:06 PM »
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Who says we should be strictly formal anyway? I actually think the use of the word "Quotes" can be considered formal now.
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measdale
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Re: Quotes « Reply #34 on: January 28, 2008, 12:10 PM »
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Quote from: Mark on January 28, 2008, 12:06 PM

I actually think the use of the word "Quotes" can be considered formal now.


A quick review of dictionaries reveals most sources don't even list it as "informal" (the Cambridge does), just as a variant.
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Mark
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Re: Quotes « Reply #35 on: January 28, 2008, 12:12 PM »
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Quote from: measdale on January 28, 2008, 12:10 PM

A quick review of dictionaries reveals most sources don't even list it as "informal" (the Cambridge does), just as a variant.

There we are then Very Happy
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Neil
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Re: Quotes « Reply #36 on: January 28, 2008, 12:16 PM »
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Quote from: Mark on January 28, 2008, 12:12 PM


There we are then Very Happy


But no one uses the cambridge... they use the Oxford. lol

I don't see the problem.
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ljsmall
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Re: Quotes « Reply #37 on: January 29, 2008, 12:21 PM »
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The OED online actually has 2 entries for quote used as a noun.

Quote n.
1. a. An aliquot part.
2. = QUOTA 
    b. Sc. Law. ‘The portion of the goods of one deceased appointed by law to be paid for the confirmation of his testament, or for the right of intromitting with his property’ (Jamieson).


Quote n.
+1. A (marginal) reference; a note. Obs.
  2. a. A quotation. Also quote mark = b.
     b. A quotation mark.
  3. = QUOTATION 

That small cross actually means that this definition is actually obscelete and has been so since 1611. As you see it has been replaced by quotation. So if Cambridge and Oxford both agree...

But like I said, I get your logic behind it. I'm no longer concerened about you changing it. Leave it that way if you like. However that doesn't stop it (justifyably) irritating me!

(I'd post you the oed link but it's a subscribed site on the uni pc's. If you have a subscription check it out here)
[ Last edit by ljsmall January 29, 2008, 01:15 PM ] IP Logged
Yamor
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Re: Quotes « Reply #38 on: January 29, 2008, 12:42 PM »
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I don't understand, isn't the first meaning in the second entry the obsolete one? Here it was used with the second meaning in mind?
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measdale
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Re: Quotes « Reply #39 on: January 29, 2008, 12:45 PM »
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The "+" refers to the first definition only !!!!

In case you doubt me, definition 2 under that, use of quote to mean quotation mark, as in the expression "in quotes" is clearly contemporary, and not obsolete.

"Obscelete" ?
"concerened" ?
"justifyably" ?

roflmao lmao lmao lmao

(I don't have a subscription to the oed site - I have an old [late 90s] oed at home!!!)
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Yamor
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Re: Quotes « Reply #40 on: January 29, 2008, 12:57 PM »
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Whats wrong with justifyably?
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ljsmall
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Re: Quotes « Reply #41 on: January 29, 2008, 01:16 PM »
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My apologies for the fact I can't spell (although honestly the last two were speed typos. I do actually know how to spell them). I know I can't and it is something I work on. I've been rubbish at it ever since I was little, but i do try.

I am aware the + refers to the first definition only but i read the second definition as referring only the actual quotation marks. For example 'in quotes', as you so rightly point out.

I have always gone by this definition:

"To quote means to repeat the exact words of another with the acknowledgement of the source.
A quotation is a phrase or a sentence from a book or a speech that reflects the author's profound thoughts.

Often the words quote and quotation are used as substitutes for each other. Quote is a verb and Quotation is a noun. So, in effect, you quote a quotation."

It was a pet peeve of one of my lecturers and it overlapped onto me.

So it's always going to irritate me I'm afraid!
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ljsmall
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Re: Quotes « Reply #42 on: January 29, 2008, 01:17 PM »
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Quote from: Yamor on January 29, 2008, 12:57 PM

Whats wrong with justifyably?


It should be justifiably. I spelt it wrong.
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measdale
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Re: Quotes « Reply #43 on: January 29, 2008, 01:29 PM »
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Quote from: ljsmall on January 29, 2008, 01:16 PM
So it's always going to irritate me I'm afraid!

I understand that completely.

Our pet irritations overlap here.
What always gets me is when people try to restrict the language to either an archaic form (eg. this instance) or a series of grammatical constructs based largely on irrelevent models (don't even start me on the "split infinitive" nonsense).

I've always thought the strength of English is the fact that it does grow and mutate, and that its rules are normally just guidelines which can flex over time.

Unlike French and their stupid academie.

Voltaire agreed with me, by the way. lmao

So when people come in with corrections to English, I'm often really narky (as opposed to normally Very Happy).
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Yamor
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Re: Quotes « Reply #44 on: January 29, 2008, 01:33 PM »
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Just saw now the BBC article on the website every week is called "Quotes of the week". Quotes is definitely used nowadays much more, and the OED article you brought backs that up!

Also, i've seen justifyably used lots of times, but i suppose it could just be a common spelling mistake...
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