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[Allan]

Ah ........ okay.  So, if I want ESPN I can get it for £8/month as I am already a SSX subscriber.  Hmmmm .... think I'll wait and see if there's any real time tennis ....

So, I take that you don't have the XL package then.

[Sir Panda]

Well the sight of drunken Scottish fans attacking police singing bigoted party songs and  BBC TV commenting on them pissing in the street embarrassed me as a fan of Scottish football.

It's a real shame that 99% of the fans that behaved (there was between 150,000 and 200,000) in the city over the Tuesday/Wednesday are tarnished with this brush. I'll never defend the actions of the 50-100 that rioted with the police, it was inexcusable. However, I don't think any club could have taken down that many people and not have caused trouble.

Also, Manchester was not equipped sufficiently with port-a-loos as it did not expect the mass influx of fans, pubs also closed their doors during the match, some didn't have a choice but to relieve themselves in the street.

[Sir Panda]

I think you're being harsh, Vinnie. We created several glorious chances, Naismith missed an easy one at point blank range, Almunia saved it well, and I thought Bougherra and Miller at the end were unlucky not to score. I thought we passed the ball well, we kept it on the ground which was refreshing to see, and in the second half, did not refrain from sending men forward to support Miller. I would have liked to have seen better ball retention in the midfield, but I think we caused them some problems.

Arsenal were playing very well I thought - aggressive, so much movement off the ball that our back four did not know how to deal with it. Wilshere is indeed a precocious talent, loads of composure that belies his age, good with both feet and lightning quick.

P.S - thought our fans were superb, louder than the Arsenal fans for vast periods of the match, even at 2-0 down!

[Sir Panda]

I was actually talking about the sheer number and volume of them, Vinnie.

As for the Billy Boys (it's not called Hello Hello) what can I say? It's been one of the clubs anthems for decades, for some reason, only now it is becoming unacceptable, am I right in saying that?

If one of the lines was removed or altered, it would be a perfectly acceptable song, so I'm definitely all for removing that lyric and changing it to something more PC.

If Rangers fans are to stop singing this version, should Celtic fans be punished when singing about the IRA?

[Vinnie]

I was actually talking about the sheer number and volume of them, Vinnie.

As for the Billy Boys (it's not called Hello Hello) what can I say? It's been one of the clubs anthems for decades, for some reason, only now it is becoming unacceptable, am I right in saying that?

If one of the lines was removed or altered, it would be a perfectly acceptable song, so I'm definitely all for removing that lyric and changing it to something more PC.

If Rangers fans are to stop singing this version, should Celtic fans be punished when singing about the IRA?

Yes I believe banning both sides of the Old Firm for this kind of stuff would be warranted. What is the line the Rangers fans add onto the end of the sash that makes this acceptable song unacceptable? Do you think its OK to sing FTP/FTQ as Old Firm fans have done this for decades? The most appalling song I have heard recently is I hope you Die in your bed Naco Novo so I also have a problem with some of the Filth coming from Celtics fans as well. David Murray acknowledges that the Billy Boys is discriminatory and as such should not be sung this is good enough for me.

[Vinnie]

Personally, I'm not offended by anyone singing any football song, unless they were singing my name and personally attacking me. I'm not offended by any song that the Celtic fans sing, perhaps that's just me, I'd like to think football fans have thick skins. The only song which has come close to riling me would be Aberdeen and Celtic fans singing about the Ibrox disaster.

As for Nacho Novo, it's pretty distasteful, but Novo was always going to be a hate figure, turning them down to sign for us, being a Roman Catholic yet taking Rangers to his heart and also scoring plenty of goals in OF matches.


Which football team do you support, Vinnie?

Personally I find it offensive to watch Eastern European fans Monkey call at black players. This is not aimed at me or personally attacking me.
The Old Firm stuff offends me because I am a Christian and show my faith by attending Church. Going to a football match and shouting FTQ/FTP and all the other stuff as a way of showing some kind of affiliation to a church or offending members of another church is just wrong. (I know I am being hypocritical as a Christian judging other people)
Any kind of glamorising terrorism offends me as a human being let alone anything else, but for me it’s the same as the Ibrox disaster stuff (Where my wife’s uncle died). Think of what the relatives must think when they hear that stuff.
Nacho Novo should not have to hear people saying they would like the IRA shoot him in his bed, and the fact that he’s a Roman Catholic and takes Rangers to his heart is an issue in this day and age shows the bigotry within our society.
I have heard supporters of all the other clubs aim bigoted filth at travelling Old Firm fans; I would shut their Stadiums for a week as well.
I actually don’t support a Club just now as I stay to far away from one to go and watch. However when I did go to the football it was always the Local club. There was a number and the last one in Scotland I watched was Partick Thistle when I stayed in the west end of Glasgow. I now believe it or not enjoy watching any Scottish football, which will be born out by the fact I watched the Motherwell game in midweek. Who I want to win can change from one minute to the next and that includes Rangers and Celtic.

[Jimzagooner]

I know I'll not be welcome here, but I'm really moved to give my tuppence worth.

For every intelligent, genuine football fan out there who supports his or her team, there are at least 10 thugs who simply use this medium to vent their prejudice and bigotry.  Unfortunately these things are very often handed down from generation to generation, inbred and become part of a person's psyche.  I don't see that changing. 

What I can't deal with when it comes to the 'Old Firm' is that it's not even about Sport, it's about religion.  What a joke. 

thats probably a bit strong El, the bulk of footy fans are just regular people.  Its a few silly sods who give the rest of us a bad name. 
btw evening all haven't been around much as Andy's been on his break! plus i am waiting for mrs jim to have baby number two (any day now-still don't know what it is)

[invisibleman18]

Was there any doubt?

Happy with that. Could have been much worse. Confident we'll do them in the home match but we're more than capable of putting in the type of performance that will lose to them away. Good draw.