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The European Championships of 2008

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Seany-Bhoy
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #45 on: June 10, 2008, 12:51 PM »
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I thought he was still in play although behind the line.  For example if the player fell behind the goal line between the posts, he could have stopped Ruud's goal by sticking a foot out.  So even though he was off the field of play he could have prevented the goal if he was between the post but behind the line, he still had a part to play - if all that makes sense, you can see where I'm coming from.
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invisibleman18
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #46 on: June 10, 2008, 01:10 PM »
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Hmmm interesting although I do disagree the idea that he was still in play. If he had deliberately stepped off the field then fair enough. But he was knocked out and didn't exactly get up straight away after the goal. In my opinion he was not active in play, but if that's the rule the fair enough. These days you never know if the player is faking of course, although in this case he clearly wasn't.

Edit: There is a 136 page pdf file of the laws of the game on the FIFA website. Just had a quick skim through and couldn't see anything about this ussue. Found mention of players deliberately walking off the field to change equipment or get treatment but I didn't find anything about players accidentally leaving the field and not being able to get back on due to injury. Think
[ Last edit by invisibleman18 June 10, 2008, 01:24 PM ] IP Logged
invisibleman18
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #47 on: June 10, 2008, 01:34 PM »
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After another look, the relavant part of the offside law (law 11) appears to be this:

Quote
If a defending player steps behind his own goal line in order to place an opponent in an offside position, the referee shall allow play to continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission when the ball is next out of play.


So by this law, I guess it's a question of whether being knocked out by your own teammate counts as "deliberately leaving the field of play."
It is an interesting one, and a pretty rare situation so after the controversy surrounding this incident, perhaps they will now clarify the rules around this issue a bit further. Although it's very rare to happen, there doesn't seem to be any law about a player unintentionally leaving and remaining off the field of play as happened here. It only talks about "deliberately." Think
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Scottie
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #48 on: June 10, 2008, 01:54 PM »
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He went off the pitch and was still active! So, its a perfectly valid goal!
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invisibleman18
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #49 on: June 10, 2008, 02:08 PM »
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I personally disagree that being off the pitch after being knocked out counts as being active, but as there doesn't appear to be a law that deals with this, yes it was valid. It's that "deliberately leaving the field of play" part I have an issue with as I personally don't believe he did "deliberately" leave the field.

But it's just me not really agreeing with the law rather than saying the decision was wrong. Or rather, me feeling that the laws currently don't fully account for the situation that has occured. Perhaps after this an addition might be made to make this clearer.
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Scottie
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #50 on: June 10, 2008, 02:19 PM »
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Yeah, he got knocked off the pitch by his own player. But he wasnt injured and limped off. Like Seany said what if he had ended up in the net area and stuck his boot out and blocked Van Nistelrooys shot off the line? It would have been allowed, so I think that its all the same. Maybe the rule needs defining a little though!
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invisibleman18
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #51 on: June 10, 2008, 02:28 PM »
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Yeah that's what I'm saying. Having read the official laws of the game from the FIFA website, there is no law that really clearly deals with this situation so perhaps the powers that be should consider some additions. There may need to be a clearer defining of what does and does not count as "active."

Although I don't really agree that him ending up in the net would be quite the same as I feel that the goal area counts as part of the pitch whereas the area Panucci ended up is not. So for me, he would still be on the pitch and then it's up to the referee to decide whether or not play should be stopped for the injury. If play goes on, then whatever happens happens.
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Seany-Bhoy
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #52 on: June 10, 2008, 02:40 PM »
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Lines are on the pitch for a reason - to determine the scope of play, if behind the goal-line, the player is still active, if ball is outside scope of play (outside of lines) then play stops for free-kick, throw in etc and play is not active.  Players especially wingers will run outside the lines on some occasion to get round the opponent but they can get back in just as easily as they went out.

The player is not receiving treatment or severley injured so he can return to active play anytime and not at the refs discretion.  So between the posts or not, the player can easily get back on the field of play when they wish - all on field players are active unless they are off the field of play with injury.  The only argument people can make is that the italian player was on the ground and had no say on what happened, but if he was between the post and behind the line he could still prevent the goal lying down or not just by sticking a foot out.
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Sir Panda
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #53 on: June 10, 2008, 05:23 PM »
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1-0 to Spain, David Villa fires home after some gritty work from Torres on the break.
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Sir Panda
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #54 on: June 10, 2008, 05:45 PM »
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2-0, Villa again, on the break.
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invisibleman18
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #55 on: June 11, 2008, 12:32 AM »
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Guess I was wrong about Russia. lol

To be fair though, the score doesn't really reflect the game. Russia were not that bad and they played well in patches. The difference was just a bit of quality in the final third which perhaps was to be expected with Russia missing their best player. Still fancy them to beat Greece and cause Sweden problems in the decider for 2nd in the group.
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Yamor
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #56 on: June 11, 2008, 04:33 PM »
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Things that can be decided today:

Group winners:
Portugal, if they win, and Switzerland don't draw with Turkey
Czech Republic, if they win, and Switzerland don't draw with Turkey.

Runners-up:
Cannot be decided today

Qualification:
Nothing possible more then the above

Elimination:
Switzerland, if they lose, and Czech Republic don't win
Turkey, if they lose, and Portugal don't win
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Yamor
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #57 on: June 11, 2008, 05:44 PM »
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Just realised i got this wrong. Here's the same thing corrected:

Things that can be decided today:

Group winners:
Portugal, if they win, and Switzerland don't win
Czech Republic, if they win, and Turkey don't win.

Runners-up:
Cannot be decided today

Qualification:
Nothing possible more then the above

Elimination:
Switzerland, if they lose, and Czech Republic don't win
Turkey, if they lose, and Portugal don't win
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Sir Panda
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #58 on: June 11, 2008, 08:14 PM »
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C'mon Portugal, that £90 is a step closer.  yay

This rain is awful, the ball is just stopping dead!
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Re: The European Championships of 2008 « Reply #59 on: June 11, 2008, 08:59 PM »
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The pitch is awful. Rally has livened up a dull game though!
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