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ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players

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tamila
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #915 on: March 18, 2013, 09:02 PM »
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Nothing about this tournament made me feel happy.  Especially when I countesd the time between points in the Nadal v Berdych match.  They even put on the screen that Nadal took 45 seconds at one point.  The commies mentioned that something needed to be done about the warm up and that the players should club together and complain about these breaches of rules.  This fawning all over Nadal put me off watching anything except the Berdych match which I only watched to see what it was all about.
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Grabcopy
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #916 on: March 18, 2013, 09:49 PM »
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Mark, you around? I think this is a topic all of its own and needs its own thread.
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Masaka
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #917 on: March 18, 2013, 09:53 PM »
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Some pretty hot and heavy allegations going on here.  shocking

I am not sure that you could call them allegations, they are different people's interpretation of the data available to them, ie speculation. Speculation that is rife on the Internet.
1) Nadal has been off the tour due to a longstanding problem with his knees. He returns with no apparent signs of any knee problems. Understandably this causes some people to be puzzled and ask questions.
2) The Internet is rife with rumours about Nadal's links and involvement in doping, and has been for a while. This makes some people question if the long layoff was linked to drugs rather knees.

Dennis Compton had a problem with his knee joints. He played cricket and football into his late thirties. Kevin Pietersen has a knee problem. He has not had to retire from cricket.

Surely it depends on the nature of the knee problems and the demands of the sport. Cricket is very different to tennis.


According to expert medical opinion or just what you feel in your bones?

Nadal suffers from Tendinitis and Hoffa's disease. The Tendinitis seems to have been ongoing over several years. There are also various other things. One of the problems seems to be that no one has been able to pin down exactly what the problems are. The explanations from the Nadal camp seem to be quite changeable. Given these problems seem to be longstanding, I personally find it quite hard to believe that he can return from such a long layoff with no signs of a problem. It involves a suspension of disbelief that I personally can't manage. If other people can that's fine. 

Sporting rituals may be odd but they are not signs of OCD. If he shows symptoms off court, that is another matter. Competitively, Nadal is mentally stronger than anyone except Djokovic. He hardly seems to be falling apart. This has nothing to do with drugs anyway.

I don't think the rituals are linked to drugs. I think they are way beyond the norm. Equally I have not watched enough sport to say if other sportspeople have such extreme rituals. Can you suggest anybody else who exhibits similar behaviour?




Right. You don't have anything on Nadal except the fact he was injured and came back from it.

I personally don't have anything on Nadal at all. I have never said that I did. What I have said is that if Nadal was ever outed as a drug user I would not personally be surprised. I think that there is enough out there in the electronic ether, not  to make my opinions completely ridiculous. Others may and do disagree.

Just as a viewer couldn't tell who was doping in cycling, the same goes for tennis. Suspecting Lance Armstrong or anyone else would have been based on nothing. It is up to the administrators of the game to make sure testing is thorough.

I have cited the example of Armstrong simply because there were rumours about Armstrong and his doping seemingly for years. He denied it, and his supporters were foaming at the mouth about their hero being impugned. He had never failed a drugs test etc, etc.

To me there are enough similarities between Armstrong and Nadal to trigger suspicions in my admittedly cynical mind. Other may reach different conclusions. 


Nadal, as far as we know has never been caught using drugs. The evidence would suggest therefor that he is clean. 

Equally some of the things reported in the press and on the Internet, are sufficient to make small minded cynics such as myself wonder if Nadal,  like Armstrong, is hiding something unsavoury.

As I have said many times before, these thoughts represent my personal opinion. They are not facts and I don't present them as such.

Other people, such as yourself have different opinions based on their interpretation of the information at their disposal.
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marathonarthur
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #918 on: March 18, 2013, 11:04 PM »
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Nothing about this tournament made me feel happy.

I understand this reaction but there were some good points. Delpo beat the Joke and the Fed lost which is encouraging for a more competitive time perhaps by 2015? Same applies to Delpo beating AM but really AM lost it rather than Delpo winning it.

All you guys seem pretty fired up about Rafa. A lot seems true. Coaching, long time spent between points on his service, and gamemanship when losing to disturb his opponent is accepted by most but it makes no difference. Sycophantic was a good way to describe the drooling we get about him (and Federer) on TV coverage but it is not to the player but the public. However it will not stop unless we get more competitive tournaments and change the commentators. Unfortunately the public out there are too instilled into believing what they say and both now join in an endless circle of expected adulation. Records rather than current abilities are the drivers not the tennis. Fed is half a pace too slow now so is becoming past tense. I expect him to have dropped to ranked 6 by London O2.  AM will always be a a non starter for adulation as our UK sportsmen (and women) are never really taken seriously even if world class.

I am looking forward to Miami but with no expectation of any change in attitude even though those two most admired players will be missing! That they are missing will be repeated over and over again? What a good chance to see the other players competing for a change? Still want Andy to win as he is so unpredictable and talented and provides many more of those really special shots (like Rafa often does too). Exciting. Exactly what the Fed does not do now and why I find him so boring?

Will be watching Andy's matches so hoping for a long run at Miami so I can enjoy good tennis (with the sound turned down) as usual.
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Fiverings
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #919 on: March 19, 2013, 09:49 AM »
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I understand this reaction but there were some good points. Delpo beat the Joke and the Fed lost which is encouraging for a more competitive time perhaps by 2015? Same applies to Delpo beating AM but really AM lost it rather than Delpo winning it.

All you guys seem pretty fired up about Rafa. A lot seems true. Coaching, long time spent between points on his service, and gamemanship when losing to disturb his opponent is accepted by most but it makes no difference. Sycophantic was a good way to describe the drooling we get about him (and Federer) on TV coverage but it is not to the player but the public. However it will not stop unless we get more competitive tournaments and change the commentators. Unfortunately the public out there are too instilled into believing what they say and both now join in an endless circle of expected adulation. Records rather than current abilities are the drivers not the tennis. Fed is half a pace too slow now so is becoming past tense. I expect him to have dropped to ranked 6 by London O2.  AM will always be a a non starter for adulation as our UK sportsmen (and women) are never really taken seriously even if world class.

    Good analysis. I agree, and will follow your prediction for Feds ranking with interest
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Littlebuddha
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #920 on: March 19, 2013, 11:52 AM »
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I agree all players should be treated the same and that includes Rafa. When it was found he was being coached he should have been warned. No exceptions should be made or why bother having the rules in the first place.
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benniebone
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #921 on: March 19, 2013, 12:01 PM »
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 Has anyone else noted Andreas Seppi's first appearance in the top twenty? In the last 6 months he has quietly been doing much better than in the past.
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clementine
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #922 on: March 19, 2013, 12:55 PM »
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The truth is that Federer and Nadal have been allowed, and encouraged, to become bigger than the sport of tennis itself.  The media circus is at fever pitch to big them up to the point of hysterical hero-worship.  The commentators are sycophantic spin doctors plumbing new depths every time one or both of them decide to honour the world with an increasingly rare appearance.  Their opponents are treated like invisible sacrificial lambs at the altars of these tennis-playing gods with barely a mention even when they play their hearts out and produce wonderful shots.  For those of us who appreciate other players, matches involving Fed/Nadal are fascinating, not so much for the tennis but for yet another opportunity to marvel at the latest droolfest of over-the-top comments coming from the comms. 

How refreshing would it be for them to comment on what is actually happening, such as Federer looking thoroughly fed up and uncomfortable, scowling, swearing, being grumpy and off with the umpire, instead of reminding us all what a fabulous ambassador he is for the sport?  And they need to start being honest - when Nadal is bending and breaking the rules they shouldn't snigger encouragingly and dismiss his behaviour as 'Oh well, that's Rafa, isn't it?  Gotta love the guy, and, boy, how we've all missed him!'  The Fed/Nadal fans lap it up of course, but what about everyone else?  The lovefest for these two has become nauseating while other players get left out in the cold. 

With Federer nearing retirement and Nadal's 'knee issues' the world of tennis must start to look ahead and show respect and fairness to everyone - players, umpires and spectators.  As things stand, tournament organisers/promotors are blatantly being seen to show a very unhealthy bias in favour of these two.  They are getting away with it just now as they are loved by many, but the danger is that when their time is up their fans will vanish with them.  Many of them appear so obsessed with their heroes that no other tennis player will do. 

 
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Iris
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #923 on: March 19, 2013, 01:14 PM »
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Good post Clementine maybe one day they will praise Andy to the hilt............I wish! Shrug
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The Gnome
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #924 on: March 19, 2013, 01:25 PM »
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Yep hit the nail on the head there Clementine  Good posting!
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Elly
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #925 on: March 19, 2013, 01:37 PM »
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Yep hit the nail on the head there Clementine  Good posting!
Great post, Clementine. Agree with it all. 
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The Gnome
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #926 on: March 19, 2013, 01:55 PM »
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Seems Delpotro is going to play Queens also, with Berdych already confirmed looks like quite a strong field.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21657991
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Aileen
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #927 on: March 19, 2013, 02:35 PM »
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I don't think ATP is either naive or stupid. They just can't go and order Nadal to get a thorough medical exam on the knees from one of their preferred experts. But most importantly, I don’t think they care. It's good to have Nadal around because it provides more competition and they are more keen on that.
Why not?  Is yet there yet again one rule for him and another for other players?  Also if Nadal has nothing to hide then he should be willing to undergo such an examination.  At least it might have the effect of putting an end to all the negative speculation about what's been going on over the past few months.

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janetx
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #928 on: March 19, 2013, 02:50 PM »
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The truth is that Federer and Nadal have been allowed, and encouraged, to become bigger than the sport of tennis itself.  The media circus is at fever pitch to big them up to the point of hysterical hero-worship.  The commentators are sycophantic spin doctors plumbing new depths every time one or both of them decide to honour the world with an increasingly rare appearance.  Their opponents are treated like invisible sacrificial lambs at the altars of these tennis-playing gods with barely a mention even when they play their hearts out and produce wonderful shots.  For those of us who appreciate other players, matches involving Fed/Nadal are fascinating, not so much for the tennis but for yet another opportunity to marvel at the latest droolfest of over-the-top comments coming from the comms. 

How refreshing would it be for them to comment on what is actually happening, such as Federer looking thoroughly fed up and uncomfortable, scowling, swearing, being grumpy and off with the umpire, instead of reminding us all what a fabulous ambassador he is for the sport?  And they need to start being honest - when Nadal is bending and breaking the rules they shouldn't snigger encouragingly and dismiss his behaviour as 'Oh well, that's Rafa, isn't it?  Gotta love the guy, and, boy, how we've all missed him!'  The Fed/Nadal fans lap it up of course, but what about everyone else?  The lovefest for these two has become nauseating while other players get left out in the cold. 

With Federer nearing retirement and Nadal's 'knee issues' the world of tennis must start to look ahead and show respect and fairness to everyone - players, umpires and spectators.  As things stand, tournament organisers/promotors are blatantly being seen to show a very unhealthy bias in favour of these two.  They are getting away with it just now as they are loved by many, but the danger is that when their time is up their fans will vanish with them.  Many of them appear so obsessed with their heroes that no other tennis player will do. 

 

Very good points; I think the tennis media have short-term goggles on, and they spend so much time hyping up these two players that you're right - when they leave, then what? Will they be scrambling to notice and promote someone else?

And so much for the Fedal "rivalry" - the best one in tennis, etc. Really, most of their matches post-2009 have been straightforward imo. The AO semi in 2012 was good, but some of the others have been fairly one-sided and yet overhyped, like the match at IW.
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Elly
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #929 on: March 19, 2013, 03:09 PM »
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I have twofold issues here.  A fair Umpire should not allow any player, no matter who they are, any extra time fiddling, touching or doing whatever - the issue is 'extra time'.  That should have been identified and dealt with a long time ago.  Can you imagine any unknown player having that sort of indulgence?  The rules should apply to every player.

I also think monogrammed jackets should be left in the locker room and not come out on any match day to be glorified and intimidate an opponent on any given day.  If you're doing that, you are looking for adulation.  We all know you are good, Roger, but getting it up everyone's clack just makes you a bit of a tosser...
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