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ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players

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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4125 on: July 26, 2013, 02:07 PM »
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Here's the ITF's detailed report on the tribunal:

http://www.itftennis.com/media/152389/152389.pdf

@katie
Yes, I'm really surprised he got such a harsh ban after missing just one test, and was wondering if he'd missed others.
Unless there's other stuff going on, re the players and drug taking, that we don't know about.

I've been trying to find the rules about missed tests and bans, and found this in the ITF anti-doping programme:

2.3 Refusing or failing without compelling justification to submit to Sample collection after notification of Testing as authorised in applicable anti-doping rules, or otherwise evading Sample collection.

So it looks like players can be banned for missing just one test. I was getting confused with the whereabouts rule, which does give players three chances to comply:

2.4 For a Player in the International Registered Testing Pool, failing three times in any eighteen-month period to comply with the requirements regarding Player availability for Out-of-Competition Testing set out in the International Standard for Testing, including any failure to file whereabouts information in accordance with Article 11.3 of the International Standard for Testing (a “Filing Failure”) and/or any failure to be available for Testing at the declared whereabouts in accordance with Article 11.4 of the International Standard for Testing (a “Missed Test”), whether declared by the ITF or any other Anti-Doping Organisation with jurisdiction over the Player.

http://www.itftennis.com/media/136265/136265.pdf
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Grabcopy
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4126 on: July 26, 2013, 02:11 PM »
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Troicki got 18 months, not the standard 2 years, suggesting there was SOME doubt. If there's any at all, he shouldn't be punished, surely?
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Caz
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4127 on: July 26, 2013, 02:22 PM »
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I agree Nigel! They either think he's guilty and ban him for the full two years, or if there's any doubt, not at all!
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Ruthie
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4128 on: July 26, 2013, 02:48 PM »
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according to the BBC website the tribunal said there were mitigating circumstances because he was under stress - hence the reduction to 18 months.  Not a question of doubt. 
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4129 on: July 26, 2013, 10:46 PM »
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There's a rumour going round that Cilic failed a drugs test in Munich (after taking a prohibited glucose tablet) and that he's currently serving a 3 months ban. It's not confirmed, though a Croatian site is carrying the story:

http://www.jutarnji.hr/sok-za-najboljeg-hrvatskog-tenisaca-cilic-pao-na-dopinskom-testu--ozljeda-koljena-bila-je-paravan/1116662/

English translation here:
http://www.changeovertennis.com/report-marin-cilic-failed-doping-test-in-munich/

Hope this isn't true. If it is, it makes Troicki's ban look very harsh in comparison.
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CoolDude
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4130 on: July 26, 2013, 11:35 PM »
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There's a rumour going round that Cilic failed a drugs test in Munich (after taking a prohibited glucose tablet) and that he's currently serving a 3 months ban. It's not confirmed, though a Croatian site is carrying the story:

http://www.jutarnji.hr/sok-za-najboljeg-hrvatskog-tenisaca-cilic-pao-na-dopinskom-testu--ozljeda-koljena-bila-je-paravan/1116662/

English translation here:
http://www.changeovertennis.com/report-marin-cilic-failed-doping-test-in-munich/

Hope this isn't true. If it is, it makes Troicki's ban look very harsh in comparison.

seems legit is on several sites
dont get why only 3 months shouldn't it be the usual 2 years since it was peohibited?


though I really hate seeing these types of things as it makes me think who else is doping in the sport of tennis. But if it was in April why didn't we hear about it earlier?
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Aileen
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4131 on: July 27, 2013, 01:38 AM »
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^ But what exactly was prohibited?  Glucose isn't a banned substance so it sounds to me  from the article that there was something added to the glucose of which Cilic wasn't aware because he didn't read the label.

Flash back to the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City where Scottish skier Alain Baxter, the first Brit to win a skiing medal, was stripped of his bronze when he failed a drug test after the event.  In his case he had bought a Vick's inhaler in the US which, unknown to him, contained a (banned) substance not added to the UK version.  After an appeal, funded by the BOA and his sponsors, the IOC finally agreed that he had ingested this substance unwittingly, but said that, as he had a duty of care to read labels on over-the-counter medications, he should be stripped of his medal, although he would be free to continue his skiing career.

The difference here is that glucose isn't considered to be medication, so why would anyone bother to read the label?


He has a phobia of needles, which doesn't assist circumstances here.
So how has he coped in the past?
 

Troicki got 18 months, not the standard 2 years, suggesting there was SOME doubt. If there's any at all, he shouldn't be punished, surely?
I agree Nigel! They either think he's guilty and ban him for the full two years, or if there's any doubt, not at all!
If there is some doubt but no compelling evidence to find him guilty, then they should do what the Scottish courts do in these circumstances, i.e. apply the Not Proven verdict. That would leave him free to compete but there would be a question mark hanging over him, which means that the doping authorities could keep a strict eye on him for the rest of his career.  That, to me, is the fairest way to deal with any player in the same situation.
[ Last edit by Aileen July 27, 2013, 02:44 AM ] IP Logged
flowerpower
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4132 on: July 27, 2013, 07:40 AM »
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In the case of Troicki there are four options:
- He used drugs, not doping.
- He used doping.
- He used nothing wrong,  felt ill as he said and did'n't realise the consequences,
- He used nothing wrong,  felt ill and the doctor or nurse said it was ok to wait for one day...

In my opinion he need to know that not feeling well is never a reason for not giving blood....
[ Last edit by flowerpower July 27, 2013, 12:27 PM ] IP Logged
Masaka
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4133 on: July 27, 2013, 09:31 AM »
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People know my views on doping. As someone who has monthly blood tests, the "I felt ill" explanation for not giving blood comes over as complete bull. I understand that there are some doping drugs that don't show up in urine, and which an extra 24 hours before giving a blood sample, could give enough time for them to get out of the system. Either way his actions are completely suspect in my eyes. Equally I think Troika is a sacrificial lamb on behalf of the ITF. They are under pressure to catch somebody, and they really don't want to catch anyone important. I suspect his appeal will go through and the ban will quietly  be cancelled. The ITF will have garnered the publicity of banning someone, but nothing will actually happen.  Given my and other people's views of some of Nadal, Ferrer and Djokovic's performances,  the effectiveness of drug testing in tennis remains farcical. I still think the results of last years Wimbledon and Olympics showed a drug free tournament in action. The players who I think are the most suspect either didn't enter, or didn't do that well. As ever just my personal opinion.
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flowerpower
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4134 on: July 27, 2013, 12:30 PM »
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http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/07/croatian-media-cilic-serving-suspension-doping/48526/#.UfOuxTvCRD8

Shocking news, again!

I wonder why this isn't published before...Now you'll never certain about a player who is not playing for a certain period....is it an injury or a doping affaire?
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teejay1
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4135 on: July 27, 2013, 01:00 PM »
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http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/07/croatian-media-cilic-serving-suspension-doping/48526/#.UfOuxTvCRD8

Shocking news, again!

I wonder why this isn't published before...Now you'll never certain about a player who is not playing for a certain period....is it an injury or a doping affaire?

It's interesting to me that this hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone at the moment. If you read the article it's not much more than rumour, based on Cilic pulling out of Wimbledon.

Personally I'd rather wait until some proof turns up before we imply anything.

You can't really suggest that anyone who is out for a period of time could be doping. Just to play devil's advocate, Andy was out for six weeks after the Aussie Open, so it doesn't always follow that being out is something to be suspicious about.
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Masaka
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4136 on: July 27, 2013, 01:18 PM »
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It's interesting to me that this hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone at the moment. If you read the article it's not much more than rumour, based on Cilic pulling out of Wimbledon.

Personally I'd rather wait until some proof turns up before we imply anything.

You can't really suggest that anyone who is out for a period of time could be doping. Just to play devil's advocate, Andy was out for six weeks after the Aussie Open, so it doesn't always follow that being out is something to be suspicious about.

I think we all know why Mr M pulled out of The FO. Whilst he was undoubtedly suffering with his back, realistically it was a calculated gamble to ensure he wasn't injured before Wimbledon.
He has battled on through every clay court season, even though it really hampers his congenital knee problem. In the light of the results of this years Wimbledon, it was a gamble that paid off big time.

He has won himself the biggie and undoubtedly banked a future knighthood into the bargain.

Well done Mr M - particularly given the fact he has also got the British press off his back in the process.
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Caz
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4137 on: July 27, 2013, 01:47 PM »
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'Realistically', I think the 'only' reason Andy pulled out of the FO, was because he was suffering with his back and it would have been totally foolhardy.....stupid even, to attempt the FO. I don't think he has a calculating bone in his body. Just my opinion of course!
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teejay1
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4138 on: July 27, 2013, 01:47 PM »
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I think we all know why Mr M pulled out of The FO. Whilst he was undoubtedly suffering with his back, realistically it was a calculated gamble to ensure he wasn't injured before Wimbledon.
He has battled on through every clay court season, even though it really hampers his congenital knee problem. In the light of the results of this years Wimbledon, it was a gamble that paid off big time.

He has won himself the biggie and undoubtedly banked a future knighthood into the bargain.

Well done Mr M - particularly given the fact he has also got the British press off his back in the process.

Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing Andy of anything, and I wasn't referring to him missing RG. My reply was to flowerpower's question of whether or not a player being out for a time suggests they are doping. Clearly it does not.

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Masaka
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Re: ATP/WTA Tour - The Other Players « Reply #4139 on: July 27, 2013, 03:08 PM »
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Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing Andy of anything, and I wasn't referring to him missing RG. My reply was to flowerpower's question of whether or not a player being out for a time suggests they are doping. Clearly it does not.



Hi, I didn't read your post as accusing Mr M of anything. Apologies if my post read that way. Mr M's absences from the tour are never about anything other than injury. He doesn't just have periods off for unexplained reasons. His performance on clay is always problematic, and consistent from year to year to year. Some other player absences are not in my opinion. I just wish that the ITF got to grip with testing, so we could avoid all of this speculation. Troika is a classic example. He got into trouble at the Monte Carlo Masters in April. Only now 12 weeks later do we hear about it. There doesn't seem to be any transparency about the testing regime. With regard to Nadal and all the speculation - wouldn't it have been sensible, given the widespread nature of that speculation? for the ITF to have announced that Nadal has not failed any doping control and is not serving any ban. It would shut folks like me up a bit.
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