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Big 4 since 2005

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laundry
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Big 4 since 2005 « on: May 20, 2013, 07:22 PM »
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I posted this in the other thread but I thought I'd start a topic on it since I think it could be useful to reference in the future. I will try to keep it up to date also as tournaments are completed.

Slams

   Year      AO      FO      Wimbledon      USOpen   
   2005      -      Nadal      Federer      Federer   
   2006      Federer      Nadal      Federer      Federer   
   2007      Federer      Nadal      Federer      Federer   
   2008      Djokovic      Nadal      Nadal      Federer   
   2009      Nadal      Federer      Federer      DelPotro   
   2010      Federer      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal   
   2011      Djokovic      Nadal      Djokovic      Djokovic   
   2012      Djokovic      Nadal      Federer      Murray   
   2013      Djokovic      Nadal      Murray      Nadal   
   2014      Wawrinka   Nadal      Djokovic   

Masters

   Year      IndianWells      Miami      MonteCarlo      Madrid*      Rome      Canada      Cincinnati      Ham/Shang*      Paris   
   2005      Federer      Federer      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal      Federer      Federer      Berdych    
   2006      Federer      Federer      Nadal      Federer      Nadal      Federer      Roddick   Robredo   Davydenko
   2007      Nadal      Djokovic      Nadal      Nalbandian      Nadal      Djokovic      Federer      Federer      Nalbandian   
   2008      Djokovic      Davydenko      Nadal      Murray      Djokovic      Nadal      Murray      Nadal      Tsonga   
   2009      Nadal      Murray      Nadal      Federer      Nadal      Murray      Federer      Davydenko      Djokovic   
   2010      Ljubicic      Roddick      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal      Murray      Federer      Murray      Soderling   
   2011      Djokovic      Djokovic      Nadal      Djokovic      Djokovic      Djokovic      Murray      Murray      Federer   
   2012      Federer      Djokovic      Nadal      Federer      Nadal      Djokovic      Federer      Djokovic      Ferrer   
   2013      Nadal      Murray      Djokovic      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal      Nadal      Djokovic      Djokovic   
   2014      Djokovic      Djokovic      Wawrinka      Nadal      Djokovic      Tsonga      Federer   


Titles in period

Federer: 13 [17] slams, 18 [22] masters **(has 4 previous slams and 4 previous masters)
Nadal:  14 slams, 27 masters
Djokovic: 7 slams, 19 masters
Murray: 2 slams, 9 masters
Others: 2 slams, 15 masters


*Shanghai replaced Hamburg in 2009, and Madrid moved to clay. Hamburg originally took place after Rome and Madrid after Cincinnati.
**Federer also won 2003 Wimbledon, 2004 AO, Wimbledon, USO.  2002 Hamburg, 2004 IW, Hamburg, Canada
[ Last edit by laundry August 18, 2014, 03:03 PM ] IP Logged
TheMadHatter
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 07:23 PM »
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Insane domination.

2013 is the closest the rest of the tour have been to them in years.
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laundry
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 07:31 PM »
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Murray alone in this era has won about the equivalent of all the other players outside the 'big 4' put together.

Insane domination.

2013 is the closest the rest of the tour have been to them in years.
Yet they haven't won anything so far, they're still managing to hold the fort. Considering Federer has gone off the radar, Murray is injured, Djokovic has gone a bit off the boil and Nadal's knees are possibly still a serious issue on hard courts this is probably the best time for the other guys to try and make an impact. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they can keep hold of the domination between them.
[ Last edit by laundry May 20, 2013, 08:04 PM ] IP Logged
blueberryhill
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 07:09 AM »
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Fed is declining. Will be very interesting to see how far Rafa will maintain this amazing "come back." Nole certainly isn't up to 2011, but how could he?
As for Andy? Who knows? Reckon/hope he's got 2-3 more years at the peak of his game.
As you say, TMH "insane domination."
But after Rome final, am really really hoping that was the last of  Fedal.
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 11:11 AM »
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It's incredible isn't it? I think we know on some level they have dominated, but when you see it written down like that, it's astonishing. Insane indeed.

I can only see it changing if one or two of the four go awol. What I mean is, look at Paris for example, although I know it's a quirky one, so a bad example. Federer didn't play, Nadal was still out and Djokovic and Andy seemed to be more focused in the WTF. That brought through Ferrer and JJ. If it had been business as usual for the four, or even two of them, would Ferrer and JJ have still come out on top? It's doubtful at least.

You have to wonder if Federer is on some form of permanent decline now. Will Nadal maintain his form on grass and hard, or over five potential sets for that matter. Then there is the question of Andy's back and Djokovic's focus. I have to be honest, I think the latter two are likely to be less of an issue than the former two. Thus far at least, Andy's back seems less of an issue on grass and hard. As for Djokovic, I think there was always going to be some levelling off at some point.

What I think will be interesting is who comes through if the domination of the four does end to any sort of degree. I can think of some who might in the Masters, but I think the majors are something else entirely.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #5 on: May 21, 2013, 03:27 PM »
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Murray alone in this era has won about the equivalent of all the other players outside the 'big 4' put together.
Yet they haven't won anything so far, they're still managing to hold the fort. Considering Federer has gone off the radar, Murray is injured, Djokovic has gone a bit off the boil and Nadal's knees are possibly still a serious issue on hard courts this is probably the best time for the other guys to try and make an impact. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they can keep hold of the domination between them.
Somehow at least one of them has managed to win each big event (mostly Nadal of late), but it's interesting to look at how many semi-finals each players have made in Slams+Masters (all mandatory) events:

From a maximum 6 events (semi-final record):

Nadal 4 (4-0)
Djokovic 3 (2-1)
Berdych 3 (0-3)
Murray 2 (2-0)
Federer 2 (1-1)
Ferrer 2 (1-1)
Del Potro 1 (1-0)
Tsonga 1 (0-1)
Gasquet 1 (0-1)
Wawrinka 1 (1-0)
Haas 1 (0-1)
Paire 1 (0-1)
Fognini 1 (0-1)
Andujar 1 (0-1)

And yet, only Ferrer, Wawrinka and Del Potro have gone on to make the final (aside from the big 4).

Never more than 2 of the big 4 have made the semi-finals of a Masters event, although all of the top 4 (involved, so including Ferrer) locked out the only Grand Slam we've had so far.

This is the most beatable any of the top 4 have been (although Nadal's still scraping the wins) in as long as I can remember (since they formed in 2008 I guess? 2009 maybe), but they're still managing to dominate the major events. Just.
[ Last edit by TheMadHatter May 21, 2013, 03:31 PM ] IP Logged
laundry
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #6 on: May 21, 2013, 04:27 PM »
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Let's also isolate the line-up of the tournaments where someone outside of the big 4 won.

-  2005 Paris: None big 4 entered. Final- Berdych defeated Ljubičić
-  2006 Hamburg: None big 4 entered. Final- Robredo def. Štěpánek
-  2006 Cincinnati: All big 4 entered, none made the semis. Final- Roddick def. Ferrero
-  2006 Paris: All big 4 entered, none made the semis. Final- Davydenko def. Hrbatý
+  2007 Madrid: Federer, Nadal, Djokovic entered, all 3 were beaten by Nalbandian in a row. Final- Nalbandian def. Federer
+  2007 Paris: All big 4 entered, Nadal only one to make semis. Final- Nalbandian def. Nadal
+  2008 Miami: All big 4 entered, Nadal only one to make semis. Final- Davydenko def. Nadal
-  2008 Paris: All big 4 entered, none made the semis. Final- Tsonga def. Nalbandian
+  2009 Shanghai: Nadal, Djokovic entered, both made semis. Final- Davydenko def. Nadal
+  2009 US Open: All big 4 entered, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic made semis. Final- Del Potro def. Federer
+  2010 IW: All big 4 entered, only Nadal made semis. Final- Ljubičić def. Roddick
+  2010 Miami: All big 4 entered, only Nadal made semis. Final- Roddick def. Berdych
+  2010 Paris: Federer, Djokovic, Murray entered, Federer made semis (Monfils beat Murray then Federer). Final- Söderling def. Mofils
-  2012 Paris: Djokovic, Murray entered, none made semis. Final- Ferrer def. Janowicz

I've put a + before the tournaments I deem a credible line-up, where you can say the player actually overcame some of the 'big 4' in this era to win it. It's curious that in a number of these tournaments where somebody outside the 'big 4' went on to win Nadal was the only one of the 'big 4' to make the SF. The only players I deem worthy to be said to have had a valid tournament win through in this era of the 'big 4' are: Nalbandian, Davydenko, Del Potro, Ljubičic and Roddick. In Paris 2010 it was Monfils that took out Murray and Federer but then was too shattered by the final to go onto win so although I put a + next to it for the line-up it was really an hollow victory for Söderling.

* Nalbandian managed one of the most impressive feats beating Nadal, Djokovic then Federer to win Madrid 2007; next tournament in Paris he then beat Federer in the 3rd round and Nadal in the final to take two consecutive masters titles. He also won the WTF in 2005 beating Federer in the Final.
* Davydenko with two well deserved wins beating Nadal in two masters finals at Miami 2008 and Shanghai 2009. He also won the WTF later in 2009 beating Nadal in the RR, Federer in the SF and Del Potro in the Final.
* Del Potro has arguably the most impressive feat of all taking out Nadal then Federer to claim the 2009 Us Open title
* Ljubičic did take out Nadal in the semis when going on to win Indian Wells 2010, all of the big 4 also entered the tournament
* Roddick beat Nadal on his way to winning Miami 2010, all the big four also entered. Of course Roddick has also been right at the top of the game for years and won the US Open in 2003 and 4 previous masters titles before this era of the 'big 4' properly began.
[ Last edit by laundry May 21, 2013, 09:50 PM ] IP Logged
TheMadHatter
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #7 on: May 21, 2013, 06:57 PM »
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Interesting article on a slight tangent to this subject today.

http://espn.go.com/tennis/french13/story/_/id/9294521/french-open-stanislas-wawrinka-john-isner-vulnerables

Wawrinka, Isner and the vulnerables

So much of the tennis season is spent prospecting, looking for the upward trends and vulnerabilities that will define the calendar. Sloane Stephens' big win over Serena Williams in Melbourne created expectations, but to this point, she has no more big wins.
 
It is mid-May, and Roger Federer not only has been beaten twice for the first time in three years by players who have never entered the top 10 (Julian Benneteau and Kei Nishikori), but so far he hasn't even been the best player from his own country. Switzerland's Stanislas Wawrinka is leading him in finals appearances this year (2-1) and titles (1-0).
 
Rome has come and gone. The French Open is less than a week away. And while there is intrigue as to whether Rafael Nadal, who just won another title in Rome, can defend 2,000 points from last year's Roland Garros title, whether Novak Djokovic can reach his singular goal of winning the French Open and thus securing both his career Grand Slam and the chance to corral all four majors in 2013, and whether we are finally seeing the real, inevitable decline of Federer, the real news is taking place not on the top shelf of the top 10, but in the crowded, unpredictable middle.
 
Suddenly, dangerously, only the big four could be considered even somewhat secure. David Ferrer, Tomas Berdych, Juan Martin del Potro and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga still aren't quite good enough to shake the elite, but they're too good to be consistently threatened by the rest of the field. However, each is vulnerable. Del Potro has been fighting injury and hasn't been healthy since beating Djokovic and losing to Nadal at Indian Wells. Wawrinka is this year's John Isner, aka "The Guy Nobody Wants to Play." Since losing an epic five-setter against Djokovic in Melbourne, Wawrinka has raised his level and with it his ranking. Over the past month, he has beaten Andy Murray (Monte Carlo), Ferrer (Portugal final), Tsonga and Berdych (both in Madrid), and is now just outside the top 10 at No. 11.
 
Wawrinka's charge underscores where the real jockeying is occurring, where the subset of players who should be called "The Vulnerables" live, and it might be the most exciting place in tennis. Over the past 18 months, Janko Tipsarevic, Isner, Nicolas Almagro, Mardy Fish and Richard Gasquet have shared the eighth through 10th slots, each at one point during the calendar a dark horse projected to make that leap into the penthouse space.
 
But Isner, overscheduled and unable to break serve, crested and fell in the first round to Denis Istomin. Not only is he out of the top 10, but the top 20, too, at No. 21. Fish hasn't recovered from his health trouble. Almagro has a 2-16 record in his past 18 matches against top-10 opponents, and the two victories have come against Tipsarevic, the only player in the space more vulnerable than he.
 
Tipsarevic, the Serb who played in the Barclays year-end championships in 2012, validated his great junior career by finally becoming a top-10 player last February. But he has been hanging on the edge for months, and his punishing five-set US Open quarterfinal loss to Ferrer might have been his peak.
 
Tipsarevic will be 29 next month, and like Ferrer, he is a middleweight whose game is based on a combination of athleticism and good-grade weapons without a great one. Unlike Ferrer, Tipsarevic has been saddled this year by bad losses, most recently to Daniel Brands in Munich (ranked 69th at the time) and Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (ranked 87th, in Bucharest). Tipsarevic is 11-10 but has returned to the top 10, replacing Wawrinka.
 
Tipsarevic hasn't reached the quarters of a 500-level or above tournament since retiring with a whisper to Jerzy Janowicz in Paris last November.
 
Tipsarevic is being squeezed, unable to beat the players in front of him but being severely challenged by young risers with bigger weapons like Marin Cilic and Milos Raonic. He has already lost to Ernests Gulbis and Grigor Dimitrov, the two fashionable names of the year. Perhaps the inexorable slide has begun.
 
The pattern is a familiar one: Players seem to have a short window to challenge the top before being attacked by the combination of their competitors and the pressure of having to defend points. Tipsarevic and Isner are fading out, Wawrinka is in, with the ageless Tommy Haas not far away from the top 10. Dimitrov, the Djokovic-conqueror in Madrid, and Gulbis, along with Raonic, seem to be the next men up.
 
With all the movement and topsy-turvy results with these formidable players, one thing is for certain: Cracking the big four doesn't seem like a realistic possibility.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 07:24 PM »
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 ^Very interesting article thanx clap
Made me think of the lower top ten in a different way.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #9 on: May 21, 2013, 07:46 PM »
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^^Worth nothing that when Del Potro won the USO, he played a very fatigued and out of sorts Nadal in the SFs who was recovering from injury and then went on to lose every single RR match at the WTF.

Still an impressive achievement like.
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Elena
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 02:57 PM »
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Interesting article thanks.

Interesting article on a slight tangent to this subject today.

http://espn.go.com/tennis/french13/story/_/id/9294521/french-open-stanislas-wawrinka-john-isner-vulnerables

...Tipsarevic will be 29 next month, and like Ferrer, he is a middleweight whose game is based on a combination of athleticism and good-grade weapons without a great one. Unlike Ferrer, Tipsarevic has been saddled this year by bad losses, most recently to Daniel Brands in Munich (ranked 69th at the time) and Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (ranked 87th, in Bucharest). Tipsarevic is 11-10 but has returned to the top 10, replacing Wawrinka.
 

Tipsarevic's return to top 10 will be very short-lived after failing to defend his title in Dusseldorf. Stan will go back to no 10 next week.

Once again Tipsy out in his first match,  beaten  6-7 1-6 by qualifier Guida Pella ARG (WR 101). Alex Ward GBR  (WR 439) did better against Pella, losing 5-7 in 3rd set tie break in Qualifying round 2.

Must be tough being a Tipsy fan at the moment.
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 07:11 PM »
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Tipsy has come out and said this is the worst he's been playing in three years.

Someone on twitter said that Tipsy being 8th seed was almost as funny as the thought of Murray being 2nd seed. Upon checking their profile turns out it's a massive Federer fangirl. There's a shock.
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 07:26 PM »
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 Was this Fed fan called tennisfangirl.     ?  Yeah she's a twat.  Her bio is  ...  re Fed  -  "You really have to wonder if he's even from the same planet' ♥

 lmao    

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TheMadHatter
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Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 08:08 PM »
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Was this Fed fan called tennisfangirl.     ?  Yeah she's a twat.  Her bio is  ...  re Fed  -  "You really have to wonder if he's even from the same planet' ♥

 lmao   


That's the one!

Hard to take anyone seriously who idolises someone that much. Their opinions are clearly twisted.
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^_^

Re: Big 4 since 2005 « Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 07:26 AM »
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Was this Fed fan called tennisfangirl.     ?  Yeah she's a twat.  Her bio is  ...  re Fed  -  "You really have to wonder if he's even from the same planet' ♥

 lmao   

vomit
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