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Doping in Tennis ?

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The Gnome
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #135 on: January 30, 2013, 05:13 PM »
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So basically your information is based on the book?

Emma Smile not really sure where you are going with this, if you look at any case involving crystal meth then you would know that any athlete with a prolonged use of the drug would burn out and be a complete wreck within 6 months to a year of prolonged use, there is no way he could return to physical fitness and considering the incident was only exposed after he was informed he failed a drug test and facing a lengthy ban, then i would assume any continued use of it would be picked up in subsequent tests.

And actually no, i have never read his book, i read the articles online about how he mentioned it in his autobiography.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #136 on: January 30, 2013, 05:20 PM »
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Emma Smile not really sure where you are going with this, if you look at any case involving crystal meth then you would know that any athlete with a prolonged use of the drug would burn out and be a complete wreck within 6 months to a year of prolonged use, there is no way he could return to physical fitness and considering the incident was only exposed after he was informed he failed a drug test and facing a lengthy ban, then i would assume any continued use of it would be picked up in subsequent tests.

And actually no, i have never read his book, i read the articles online about how he mentioned it in his autobiography.

I don't think you can make all those assumptions based on what Andre had to say in his book which could very well be another pack of lies. Lance Armstrong, for example, still lied on quite a few occasions during that interview and there was a reason why he came forward to begin with. I am not taking any of the players' 'confessions' as gospel of truth when the very players weren’t ethical in the first place.
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The Gnome
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #137 on: January 30, 2013, 05:26 PM »
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Even without the confession from his book, it's not really an assumption, crystal meth is a recreational drug and a dangerous one at that, it is in no way considered to be useful for boosting an athletes performance certainly not over a prolonged amount of time, it would actually be detrimental to a tennis players game.

The actual confession is not exactly a revelation, more a case of a tennis star doing something stupid with the money he earned, Richard Gasquet has done something similar - there is a huge difference in the eyes of the ITF between somebody using a PED to get an edge over their rivals than somebody testing positive for a recreational drug
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Masaka
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #138 on: January 30, 2013, 05:26 PM »
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With regards to Gnomes post it's not that I want Djokovic or Nadal outed as dope users, so Murray can win all the GS titles for the next few years -  I would just like to feel that tennis is a clean sport and GS and other titles are being won fairly.  At the moment my "gut" feeling is that it is not. I must reiterate that this is just my opinion, and my own interpretation of what I have read. If I was wrong then I would apologise unreservedly. However in view of the information (note I don't call it evidence), out in the electronic ether and Djokovic's performances I don't think it is an unreasonable opinion.

I suspect that for many years cycling forums had similar posts to Gnomes, relating to cycling and cyclists. I think other sports need to learn from cycling and not take everything at face value. If something or someone's performance looks too good to be true, history would suggest that it often is.

Slightly tongue in cheek, if Saint Fed was ever outed, I would be sad on the surface, particularly for tennis -  but there would definitely a degree of satisfaction, which probably does mean I am a bad and nasty person....!!!
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The Gnome
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #139 on: January 30, 2013, 05:42 PM »
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With regards to Gnomes post it's not that I want Djokovic or Nadal outed as dope users, so Murray can win all the GS titles for the next few years -  I would just like to feel that tennis is a clean sport and GS and other titles are being won fairly.  At the moment my "gut" feeling is that it is not. I must reiterate that this is just my opinion, and my own interpretation of what I have read. If I was wrong then I would apologise unreservedly. However in view of the information (note I don't call it evidence), out in the electronic ether and Djokovic's performances I don't think it is an unreasonable opinion.

I suspect that for many years cycling forums had similar posts to Gnomes, relating to cycling and cyclists. I think other sports need to learn from cycling and not take everything at face value. If something or someone's performance looks too good to be true, history would suggest that it often is.

Slightly tongue in cheek, if Saint Fed was ever outed, I would be sad on the surface, particularly for tennis -  but there would definitely a degree of satisfaction, which probably does mean I am a bad and nasty person....!!!

Unfortunately in sport their is usually a Hierarchy especially in tennis. If Joe Nobody ranked 250 was tested positive for PED's then the ATP would be patting themselves on the back all over the internet about how they will not tolerate this kind of thing and how efficient their drug testing policy was. If federer was discovered using then i am convinced they would ask him nicely to retire from the game and keep the whole thing quiet.

This is why i firmly believe that any story about a high profile player who has been caught doping would never be made public knowledge unless said players confess after they retire which is highly unlikely. Tennis is way more popular than cycling worldwide, there is too much money invested in it and to be quite honest, i think any player who risks doping would be committing career suicide. I just cannot see any of them doing it.

Now wether i am only fooling myself because i love the game so much only time will tell.

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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #140 on: January 30, 2013, 05:48 PM »
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The benefits of doping are far, far less for tennis players than they are for cyclists. I'm of the same opinion that I don't think any of the top players would use it, from their viewpoint I just can't see it being worth the risk. Look at what they are potentially risking:

- Losing their entire reputation
- Being subsequently attacked by the media and when in public possibly by individuals also
- Losing all their sponsorships
- Being banned (meaning they wouldn't be able to win any more tournament even though they are still amazing players able to win them)
- And there's always the risk of damaging their health from the treatments themselves

Just doesn't seem worth the risk the minor edge it provides in tennis.
[ Last edit by laundry January 30, 2013, 05:58 PM ] IP Logged
Masaka
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #141 on: January 30, 2013, 05:52 PM »
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Unfortunately in sport their is usually a Hierarchy especially in tennis. If Joe Nobody ranked 250 was tested positive for PED's then the ATP would be patting themselves on the back all over the internet about how they will not tolerate this kind of thing and how efficient their drug testing policy was. If federer was discovered using then i am convinced they would ask him nicely to retire from the game and keep the whole thing quiet.

This is why i firmly believe that any story about a high profile player who has been caught doping would never be made public knowledge unless said players confess after they retire which is highly unlikely. Tennis is way more popular than cycling worldwide, there is too much money invested in it and to be quite honest, i think any player who risks doping would be committing career suicide. I just cannot see any of them doing it.

Now wether i am only fooling myself because i love the game so much only time will tell.

Now there I completely agree with you. Going back to Armstrong I believe cycling's governing body were complicit in covering up positive dope tests, for the same reasons.

Which again brings us back to Nadal has his absence been due to knees or this silent ban.

I think if the use of silent bans were proven I would actually be more disgusted than with the actual doper, which probably doesn't make any sense at all.

 Perhaps it's along the lines that we expect criminals to comit crime, but we expect the policemen to honest. Yes I do realise that view outs me as being totally niaive...!!!


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Emma Jean
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #142 on: January 30, 2013, 05:58 PM »
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Even without the confession from his book, it's not really an assumption, crystal meth is a recreational drug and a dangerous one at that, it is in no way considered to be useful for boosting an athletes performance certainly not over a prolonged amount of time, it would actually be detrimental to a tennis players game.

The actual confession is not exactly a revelation, more a case of a tennis star doing something stupid with the money he earned, Richard Gasquet has done something similar - there is a huge difference in the eyes of the ITF between somebody using a PED to get an edge over their rivals than somebody testing positive for a recreational drug

But that's what Agassi confessed in his book. How do we know it is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? What we know is based on what Andre has told so far and nothing more. If you say that's all there was to it, then I'd say you didn't even know this in the first place that Andre was capable of doing drugs - whether it was PED or just recreational drug is irrelevant.

And that's a pretty good excuse when you say ‘it was a tennis star doing something stupid with the money he earned’. And this is only because you like him but Mr. Agassi was never a man of ethics or principle I can tell you that right off the bat.

And the testing models we have in tennis are, as Cahill said, “going backwards” and it was no different in the 90s. Again, there’s a reason why Armstrong came forward and it had nothing to do with him feeling guilty. He was simply avoiding criminal charges and he got away with it. But still, in his days, there were a lot of rumours around him and now we know.

Fact of the matter is, people don’t confess unless they are on the verge of getting caught. And it doesn’t have to be doping in tennis. You can take Woods, Clinton for example. The truth is, we live in a very competitive era and some of them are more competitive than they should be, like Lance Armstrong for instance, and they would go beyond the boundaries just to have name, fame and money.
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Masaka
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #143 on: January 30, 2013, 06:00 PM »
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The benefits of doping are far, far less for tennis players than they are for cyclists.

I am curious as to why you think that. Surely if a PED improves endurance and speed and the ability to recover from say a 5+ hour match very quickly to enable a player to then play another long match without loss of performance, it would be of great benefit. Ie exactly what we saw happen at the 2012 AO, and after the Warwrinka match this year, and exactly what we didn't see after Federer v Tsonga, and Murray v Federer?
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #144 on: January 30, 2013, 06:00 PM »
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Murray is also one that believes doping is going on isn't he, or was that match fixing? I'd love if Fed was exposed as a cheat, that would mean 3 grand slams went to Andy Surprised
.  roflmao now that would be brilliant .
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #145 on: January 30, 2013, 06:01 PM »
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Match fixing is obviously going on, more so at the lower levels. That's inevitable with a sport like tennis.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #146 on: January 30, 2013, 06:06 PM »
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The benefits of doping are far, far less for tennis players than they are for cyclists. I'm of the same opinion that I don't think any of the top players would use it, from their viewpoint I just can't see it being worth the risk. Look at what they are potentially risking:

- Losing their entire reputation
- Being subsequently attacked by the media and when in public possibly by individuals also
- Losing all their sponsorships
- Being banned (meaning they wouldn't be able to win any more tournament even though they are still amazing players able to win them)
- And there's always the risk of damaging their health from the treatments themselves

Just doesn't seem worth the risk the minor edge it provides in tennis.

But there are athletes that got away with it just like there are criminals who got away with it. Technologically we are advancing in rapid speed and based on that, a lot of the cold case files are being solved these days. You gotta pay attention to these things.  

Tennis is always flying under the radar so far but once they adopt a very state of the art testing model, and if they have samples from previous years by any chance, as in Armstrong’s case, some players’ reputation will be on the line. But I think that authorities will be keen on hiding many things because this will also show how incompetent they were as well. But this needs to be talked to eliminate all unethical possibilities. I don’t play favoritism and so a wrong is wrong all the way
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Emma Jean
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #147 on: January 30, 2013, 06:08 PM »
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Match fixing is obviously going on, more so at the lower levels. That's inevitable with a sport like tennis.

Yes, of course. Fognini's name came up time and again. You should notice his pattern of wins and losses. Quite mind boggling stuff there.
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The Gnome
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #148 on: January 30, 2013, 06:33 PM »
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Where did i say that i liked Agassi? I'm not a huge fan of his at all and i don't understand the logic in confessing to taking crystal meth in his autobiography if he had no reason to.
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #149 on: January 30, 2013, 09:49 PM »
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Unfortunately in sport their is usually a Hierarchy especially in tennis. If Joe Nobody ranked 250 was tested positive for PED's then the ATP would be patting themselves on the back all over the internet about how they will not tolerate this kind of thing and how efficient their drug testing policy was. If federer was discovered using then i am convinced they would ask him nicely to retire from the game and keep the whole thing quiet.

This is why i firmly believe that any story about a high profile player who has been caught doping would never be made public knowledge unless said players confess after they retire which is highly unlikely. Tennis is way more popular than cycling worldwide, there is too much money invested in it and to be quite honest, i think any player who risks doping would be committing career suicide. I just cannot see any of them doing it.

Now wether i am only fooling myself because i love the game so much only time will tell.



Dimi Kutrovsky was done for drugs last year. Ranked around a career-high 300 or 400 something IIRC. Maybe 200's.
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