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Doping in Tennis ?

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Iluvandy
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #495 on: October 15, 2013, 11:28 AM »
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Dearie me.

This thread is going ..



Uphill and turning the corner?
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wimbledonwestie
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #496 on: October 15, 2013, 05:05 PM »
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It's hard to know what you expect Linda, if not people talking about doping on the 'Doping in Tennis' thread!

Probably that people discuss it without personally insulting each other.
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angiebabez
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #497 on: October 15, 2013, 05:17 PM »
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Probably that people discuss it without personally insulting each other.

Now that would be nice eh?
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wimbledonwestie
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #498 on: October 15, 2013, 05:18 PM »
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A girl can dream!
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teejay1
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #499 on: October 15, 2013, 05:29 PM »
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Now that would be nice eh?

It would also be a novelty Smile.
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Caz
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #500 on: October 15, 2013, 07:48 PM »
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I thought the insults had stopped....well, at least for the moment anyway!  confused
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #501 on: October 15, 2013, 08:37 PM »
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Long Post Alert!!

I meant the thread was falling off a cliff because there's nothing here to hold onto. All I'm seeing is basically a witch-hunt of Rafa and Novak.

I'm not in the habit of typing long-winded posts, but I'm going to make an exception this time.

Where are the sources all the doping-accusers are basing their opinions/facts on? Could you please show the link/source by right-clicking the URL and copying & pasting here so it can be read/seen by all who are interested. If it's too difficult to post the link, just mention who/where/when you read/saw the information and I can take it from there. I'm pretty good at research. Many thanks.

I'd like to start by saying I base my own thoughts and opinions on a number of different sources, and you might notice that I always post the link from the source so that people can read/see it for themselves. By using several different sources, I can get a more rounded view.

One of the *cough* sources I don't use is http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ca/ which is a pathetic hate-filled site which actively solicits rumours. Here's a taster so you get the picture:



.. and here's another amazing piece of journalism:

Flaunt it, Andy?



I guess the old adage, "When you got it, flaunt it.", was taken to heart by Andy Murray. This picture highlights a few things. First, although he is not particularly bulky, the muscle definition he has here would be very difficult to gain drug free, even with a lot of time in the weight room, in my opinion, particularly the abs and the multidefined pectoral muscles, his bulging trapezius (the muscle popping up from his back between the neck and shoulder), and I have also seen some pics of him with very well defined serratus anterior muscles (not just on his service arm), another difficult muscle group to develop. Secondly, it shows that Andy Murray is not concerned about attracting the attention of drug testers. So you have to think that either he is sure he is clean (which seems dubious based on this picture), or he is sure he isn't going to be caught. Choose your poison.

------------------------------------



So.. getting back to Novak and Rafa. I'll start with Novak :

For years, Nole struggled with allergies. With going gluten-free he has found a happy place with his diet (didn't work for Andy because he was never gluten-intolerant.) I think that his diet, outstanding training regime, incredible drive and focus, and CVAC use has helped him become the player he is. I don't know if he's still using the CVAC, but I do know that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA.

Here's some info:

http://mariposaxprs.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/a-physiologists-initial-take-on-the-cvac-pod/


And did you know that Olympic athletes at the London Olympic Games used CVAC?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20120906olympics-new-performance-devices.html?nclick_check=1

Besides sensors, some U.S. swimmers and volleyball players use an egg-shaped chamber known as a CVAC pod.
Inside the pod, changes in barometric pressure, temperature and air density create changes in the body similar to adaptations caused by high-intensity exercise.
California-based CVAC Systems Inc. says athletes who use the CVAC process report greater endurance and more energy.
The pod's popularity got a boost recently when Serbian tennis player Novak Djokovic reportedly used the device. A study of athletes at the University of Hawaii in 2009 found that the process significantly improved their blood's oxygen-carrying capacity.
CVAC officials won't reveal which Olympic athletes use the chambers or the price tag of the equipment. Athletes usually rent time on the pods at sports facilities.
"We found athletes don't like to let their competitors in on what they're doing," said Mary Steinman, the company's director of marketing.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20120906olympics-new-performance-devices.html?

Now onto Rafa:

Rafa has been using PRP since 2010, and it's been spoken of from his doctor: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/24/us-tennis-nadal-idUSTRE68N2M420100924?type=sportsNews&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FsportsNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Sports%29&utm_content=Twitter
..and by Rafa himself “PRP worked unbelievable on my knee before, in 2010, 2009. 2009 I had to pull out of Wimbledon, then I came back, but still I have pain. Just after Monte Carlo I did for the first time in my life the PRP treatment for me knee, but it was on the top of the knee, not down. Worked unbelievable. That injury I had was recovered 100% in very short period of time during the PRP treatment. "
(From the transcript of his pre-tournament press conference as published on the Shanghai website)
http://en.shanghairolexmasters.com/t...event-116.aspx

PRP IS NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA It was illegal for a short while for intramuscular use, but in 2010 WADA removed it from their banned list. Rafa uses it for his ligaments.

He also has an oxygen pod and uses anti-gravity apparatus, all of which ARE NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA.
Just wanted to finish by saying the most overpowering tell for me is what I said a couple of weeks ago: ANDY PUBLICLY ADMIRES RAFA. ANDY IS NO FOOL.

For those who think Rafa doesn't do gym work/training, here's a few random pics. That's all for now. Thanks for your time.

July 2012


July 2012


August 2012


August 2012


Sept 2012


Sept 2012 (a wetsuit like Andy's)


Oct 2012


Nov 2012


Nov 2012


Jan 2013


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Connor
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #502 on: October 15, 2013, 08:39 PM »
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Long Post Alert!!

I meant the thread was falling off a cliff because there's nothing here to hold onto. All I'm seeing is basically a witch-hunt of Rafa and Novak.

I'm not in the habit of typing long-winded posts, but I'm going to make an exception this time.

Where are the sources all the doping-accusers are basing their opinions/facts on? Could you please show the link/source by right-clicking the URL and copying & pasting here so it can be read/seen by all who are interested. If it's too difficult to post the link, just mention who/where/when you read/saw the information and I can take it from there. I'm pretty good at research. Many thanks.

I'd like to start by saying I base my own thoughts and opinions on a number of different sources, and you might notice that I always post the link from the source so that people can read/see it for themselves. By using several different sources, I can get a more rounded view.

One of the *cough* sources I don't use is http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ca/ which is a pathetic hate-filled site which actively solicits rumours. Here's a taster so you get the picture:



.. and here's another amazing piece of journalism:

Flaunt it, Andy?



I guess the old adage, "When you got it, flaunt it.", was taken to heart by Andy Murray. This picture highlights a few things. First, although he is not particularly bulky, the muscle definition he has here would be very difficult to gain drug free, even with a lot of time in the weight room, in my opinion, particularly the abs and the multidefined pectoral muscles, his bulging trapezius (the muscle popping up from his back between the neck and shoulder), and I have also seen some pics of him with very well defined serratus anterior muscles (not just on his service arm), another difficult muscle group to develop. Secondly, it shows that Andy Murray is not concerned about attracting the attention of drug testers. So you have to think that either he is sure he is clean (which seems dubious based on this picture), or he is sure he isn't going to be caught. Choose your poison.

------------------------------------



So.. getting back to Novak and Rafa. I'll start with Novak :

For years, Nole struggled with allergies. With going gluten-free he has found a happy place with his diet (didn't work for Andy because he was never gluten-intolerant.) I think that his diet, outstanding training regime, incredible drive and focus, and CVAC use has helped him become the player he is. I don't know if he's still using the CVAC, but I do know that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA.

Here's some info:

http://mariposaxprs.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/a-physiologists-initial-take-on-the-cvac-pod/


And did you know that Olympic athletes at the London Olympic Games used CVAC?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20120906olympics-new-performance-devices.html?nclick_check=1

Besides sensors, some U.S. swimmers and volleyball players use an egg-shaped chamber known as a CVAC pod.
Inside the pod, changes in barometric pressure, temperature and air density create changes in the body similar to adaptations caused by high-intensity exercise.
California-based CVAC Systems Inc. says athletes who use the CVAC process report greater endurance and more energy.
The pod's popularity got a boost recently when Serbian tennis player Novak Djokovic reportedly used the device. A study of athletes at the University of Hawaii in 2009 found that the process significantly improved their blood's oxygen-carrying capacity.
CVAC officials won't reveal which Olympic athletes use the chambers or the price tag of the equipment. Athletes usually rent time on the pods at sports facilities.
"We found athletes don't like to let their competitors in on what they're doing," said Mary Steinman, the company's director of marketing.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20120906olympics-new-performance-devices.html?

Now onto Rafa:

Rafa has been using PRP since 2010, and it's been spoken of from his doctor: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/24/us-tennis-nadal-idUSTRE68N2M420100924?type=sportsNews&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FsportsNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Sports%29&utm_content=Twitter
..and by Rafa himself “PRP worked unbelievable on my knee before, in 2010, 2009. 2009 I had to pull out of Wimbledon, then I came back, but still I have pain. Just after Monte Carlo I did for the first time in my life the PRP treatment for me knee, but it was on the top of the knee, not down. Worked unbelievable. That injury I had was recovered 100% in very short period of time during the PRP treatment. "
(From the transcript of his pre-tournament press conference as published on the Shanghai website)
http://en.shanghairolexmasters.com/t...event-116.aspx

PRP IS NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA It was illegal for a short while for intramuscular use, but in 2010 WADA removed it from their banned list. Rafa uses it for his ligaments.

He also has an oxygen pod and uses anti-gravity apparatus, all of which ARE NOT ILLEGAL BY WADA.
Just wanted to finish by saying the most overpowering tell for me is what I said a couple of weeks ago: ANDY PUBLICLY ADMIRES RAFA. ANDY IS NO FOOL.

For those who think Rafa doesn't do gym work/training, here's a few random pics. That's all for now. Thanks for your time.

July 2012


July 2012


August 2012


August 2012


Sept 2012


Sept 2012 (a wetsuit like Andy's)


Oct 2012


Nov 2012


Nov 2012


Jan 2013




Linda has put my Rafa/Novak/Fed defence to sleep, no one can deny this evidence. My work here is done.
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Masaka
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #503 on: October 15, 2013, 10:29 PM »
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Re the above. As one of the main posters on this subject the onus is perhaps on me to reply, which I will do but probably not for a day or two.

What I will say is that just as it could be argued that I am very selective about what I cite in support of my views, Scotnadian is reasonably enough equally selective in support of her views.

Having read the above I will say that it has not changed my view. Even the most superficial internet search will bring up a wealth of articles on the subject of doping in sport, if you add tennis to the search term then the names of Nadal and Djokovic come up time after time.  That remains true excluding the contentious "Tennis has a steroid problem " site.

I remain of the opinion that just as Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test, (and if one looks back many of Armstrong's supporters will have written in the same vein as Scotnadian has today), yet was recently condemned as being involved in one of the most sophisticated sports doping scams ever, in the future Rafael Nadal will be spoken of in the same vein.

Evidence and references to follow.

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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #504 on: October 15, 2013, 10:46 PM »
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.. the onus is perhaps on me to reply, which I will do but probably not for a day or two.

Why not now?

 
What I will say is that just as it could be argued that I am very selective about what I cite in support of my views, Scotnadian is reasonably enough equally selective in support of her views.

Selective? In what way?

Having read the above I will say that it has not changed my view.

Not trying to change your view. Just putting mine out there.

Even the most superficial internet search will bring up a wealth of articles on the subject of doping in sport, if you add tennis to the search term then the names of Nadal and Djokovic come up time after time.  That remains true excluding the contentious "Tennis has a steroid problem " site.

Yup. I know nowt about tennis. I just do 'superficial' internet search(es)  Sigh...

I remain of the opinion that just as Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test, (and if one looks back many of Armstrong's supporters will have written in the same vein as Scotnadian has today), yet was recently condemned as being involved in one of the most sophisticated sports doping scams ever, in the future Rafael Nadal will be spoken of in the same vein

Guess you haven't read my Lance Armstrong thread here, then?

Evidence and references to follow.

Sincerely looking forward to a logical discussion with sources, Masaka.
[ Last edit by scotnadian October 15, 2013, 10:50 PM ] IP Logged
wimbledonwestie
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #505 on: October 15, 2013, 10:55 PM »
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I thought the insults had stopped....well, at least for the moment anyway!  confused

There haven't been any this week, I was just generally referring to the fact that every so often this thread slides into a bit of a slanging match. Hopefully peace now reigns!
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Connor
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The great British player will be back!

Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #506 on: October 15, 2013, 10:56 PM »
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There haven't been any this week, I was just generally referring to the fact that every so often this thread slides into a bit of a slanging match. Hopefully peace now reigns!

As long as I am here, peace is a heaven and a bit away. Wink
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Caz
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #507 on: October 16, 2013, 07:35 AM »
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My brother who's an old man now, used to be into bodybuilding and had a body 'at least' as good as Andy Murray, which he managed to achieve 'solely' through sheer hard work! He was a bit of a 'health fanatic' and frowned on the people he knew who used anabolic steroids.  I find even the 'inference' that Andy Murray 'might' have used anything illegal, quite sickening! As far as Nadal is concerned, I have never accused him of using drugs, but already knowing he's a cheat, I wouldn't put it past him, so I do have my suspicions and seeing photos of him doing a few excercises won't change my mind! Re my edit, I'd just like to add, that until the powers that be decide to be open, honest and 'transparent', I doubt anybody will change their minds!
[ Last edit by Caz October 16, 2013, 08:21 AM ] IP Logged
Caz
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #508 on: October 16, 2013, 07:37 AM »
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There haven't been any this week, I was just generally referring to the fact that every so often this thread slides into a bit of a slanging match. Hopefully peace now reigns!
I agree Westie, but the same can be said of quite a few threads on here.
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tamila
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Re: Doping in Tennis ? « Reply #509 on: October 16, 2013, 09:08 AM »
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I support Masaka  when she says that you only have to put anything to do with doping in tennis into Google and you will most certainly come up with Nadal and Djokovic as being suspects.  In fact, this is why I started to investigate and then read Nadal's book.

As far as the gym work for Nadal is concerned he has himself told the press that he does not do 'gym'. Seeing the photos will not change my mind and neither does anything coming out of the Nadal camp.

I do think that the slanging matches on this thread are quite unneccesary but it would help if they were ignored and not fuelled by answers.
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