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MurraysWorld Discussions  >  General Community  >  Tennis Talk  >  Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Grabcopy
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Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « on: November 26, 2011, 08:19 PM »
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03-07 - a weak era. Whilst he admittedly was the best player of the time, there was no one around to challenge him.

Since 07, Murnadovic have matured and Fed's strike rate has dropped off.

He won the French, but didn't have to beat Rafa to do it. Cheap.

Throughout the Fed on grass/Nadal on clay debate, Rafa was way closer to beating him on grass than he was to beating Rafa on clay.

He has poor records vs Murnadovic - in fact, a losing record vs Andy and Rafa and a recent losing record vs the Djoker.

Other players have a much greater claim to the GOAT title - Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Sampras.

He's a poor sportsman and an ungracious loser, with very little class.
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Alis
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 09:46 PM »
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Agree with all of that Gc - very little to add.  I might include Lendl in the list of contenders for the title though.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 10:00 PM »
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Quote from: Alis on November 26, 2011, 09:46 PM
Agree with all of that Gc - very little to add.  I might include Lendl in the list of contenders for the title though.

Deffo. 19 slam finals. If he'd won one of his first four, we'd be looking at 10+ slams.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 10:06 PM »
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And Laver twice won all four slams in the one season - despite having the break where he
couldn't play them.    Fed hasn't done that and won't.
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Tasmanian Devil
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 10:32 PM »
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Quote from: Grabcopy on November 26, 2011, 08:19 PM
03-07 - a weak era.

I've only been following tennis for about five years so I don't remember who the top three players were for each of those years.  Thankfully, Wikipedia is at hand...


2003 = Roddick, Federer, Ferrero

2004 = Federer, Roddick, Hewitt

2005 = Federer, Nadal, Roddick

2006 = Federer, Nadal, Davydenko

2007 = Federer, Nadal, Djokovic


At first glance, that doesn't seem as scary as the opposition these days.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 10:44 PM »
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Yep, and let's look at who he beat in the slam finals from 03-07:

Philippoussis
Safin
Roddick
Hewitt
Roddick
Agassi (age 35)
Baghdatis
Nadal
Roddick
Gonzalez
Nadal
Djokovic

Since then, when Murray, Nadal and Djokovic have matured into his equals, he's averaged just one slam a year.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 11:03 PM »
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Also, let's discuss those Wimbledon jackets and cardigans and precisely how disrespectful they were to his opponents.

At the height of this nonsense, back in about 06, I was half expecting him to ride onto Centre Court on the back of a monogrammed unicorn accompanied by a heavenly choir.
[ Last edit by Grabcopy November 26, 2011, 11:07 PM ] IP Logged
Joe
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 11:31 PM »
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Quote from: Grabcopy on November 26, 2011, 11:03 PM
Also, let's discuss those Wimbledon jackets and cardigans and precisely how disrespectful they were to his opponents.

At the height of this nonsense, back in about 06, I was half expecting him to ride onto Centre Court on the back of a monogrammed unicorn accompanied by a heavenly choir.

Besides the disrespect, I always thought it was pointless and naff. Coming on in white trousers just for the warmup was the worst. Why? Just why? The Seargent Pepper jacket and gold-trim bag was another bizarre creation. I can't stand this desire to make some sort of fashion statement as you walk on court (Sharapova and Serena should also take note). Utterly vacuous and pretentious.

I wish some reputable tennis writers would pursue the 'sore loser' trait properly. You get the odd grumble about his comments in the national papers (the Asian swing jibe last week, after losing to Djoko at the USO this year and to Berdych at Wimbledon last year), but he still largely gets away with it. Hasn't he said enough by now for a proper inquest into the myth of his graciousness to be made?
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Iluvandy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #8 on: November 27, 2011, 12:01 AM »
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I remember watching him walk on in that outfit looking like a bottle of gold top milk and was
amazed that the crowd actually enjoyed it.    I expected everyone to fall about laughing.   It's
OK for the women you kind of expect it from them but the men.   Ugh!!!   Maybe Fed should
transfer to the WTF - that would be great for me as I don't watch women's tennis any more.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #9 on: November 27, 2011, 12:22 AM »
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His forehand is the greatest shot ever in tennis.

Hard to say whether he is the greatest, weak opponents in grand slam finals doesn't really mask his unbelievable consistency and level of play from 2004-2007.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 12:40 AM »
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What about Ken Rosewall's backhand?
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MT
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 12:45 AM »
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Quote from: Sir Panda on November 27, 2011, 12:22 AM
His forehand is the greatest shot ever in tennis.

Hard to say whether he is the greatest, weak opponents in grand slam finals doesn't really mask his unbelievable consistency and level of play from 2004-2007.

I prefer watching Smugfed play  to watching Rafa. He is a great player but unbearably up himself. I don't like the look of his missus either.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 01:06 AM »
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Neither do I and I don't think she looks very happy - not surprising really.
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notnek
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #13 on: November 27, 2011, 02:46 AM »
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It would be impossible to have a GOAT if the era quality came into question. Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Sampras were all brilliant in their eras but all of them would be heavily beaten if they played against the current crop. And none of them dominated their eras as much as Federer has. Federer did enough against the quality of the opposition he played to win 19 GS titles, the most by any player. Remember he's 30 now so he shouldn't be able to play at his best but he's still no.3 in the world. That's an amazing achievement in itself.

The only place where this argument would come up is an Andy Murray fansite. I think Roger's treatment of Andy (which has been very disrespectful) has clouded a lot of people's judgement of how good Federer actually is. I think that even if all of the top 4 were fit, he'd still have been very hard to beat this week.  Yes, he's smugfed etc. but he's also an amazing tennis player. If anyone is the GOAT, then it has to be Federer.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #14 on: November 27, 2011, 10:17 AM »
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/8917774/ATP-World-Tour-Finals-2011-Roger-Federer-through-to-final-after-straight-sets-victory-over-Spains-David-Ferrer.html

'It is amazing how the schedule always seems to favour Federer. In this case, he began his campaign at the Barclays ATP Tour Finals a day earlier than the guys in Group A, which gave him a clear break between the round-robin phase and the semi-finals.

Meanwhile Ferrer was expected to play two gruelling matches in the space of 15 hours.

Once the other members of the so-called “Big Four” had all been eliminated last week, Federer was always going to be the man the BBC wanted for their afternoon audience, and the more appealing name for the fans.'
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