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Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss.

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Grabcopy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #15 on: November 27, 2011, 10:21 AM »
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It would be impossible to have a GOAT if the era quality came into question. Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Sampras were all brilliant in their eras but all of them would be heavily beaten if they played against the current crop. And none of them dominated their eras as much as Federer has. Federer did enough against the quality of the opposition he played to win 19 GS titles, the most by any player. Remember he's 30 now so he shouldn't be able to play at his best but he's still no.3 in the world. That's an amazing achievement in itself.

The only place where this argument would come up is an Andy Murray fansite. I think Roger's treatment of Andy (which has been very disrespectful) has clouded a lot of people's judgement of how good Federer actually is. I think that even if all of the top 4 were fit, he'd still have been very hard to beat this week.  Yes, he's smugfed etc. but he's also an amazing tennis player. If anyone is the GOAT, then it has to be Federer.


Yes, but look at those first 12 slam titles between 03 and 07 above. They were achieved, in the final, against NINE different players. That tells you that the quality of the rest of the field wasn't fantastic.

Look back to the 80s, when the same six or so players contested the majors. That was a quality era - McEnroe, Wilander, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Agassi.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 10:26 AM »
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It would be impossible to have a GOAT if the era quality came into question. Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Sampras were all brilliant in their eras but all of them would be heavily beaten if they played against the current crop. And none of them dominated their eras as much as Federer has. Federer did enough against the quality of the opposition he played to win 19 GS titles, the most by any player. Remember he's 30 now so he shouldn't be able to play at his best but he's still no.3 in the world. That's an amazing achievement in itself.

The only place where this argument would come up is an Andy Murray fansite. I think Roger's treatment of Andy (which has been very disrespectful) has clouded a lot of people's judgement of how good Federer actually is. I think that even if all of the top 4 were fit, he'd still have been very hard to beat this week.  Yes, he's smugfed etc. but he's also an amazing tennis player. If anyone is the GOAT, then it has to be Federer.


It's probably impossible to have a GOAT anyway.   Would Borg, McEnroe, Laver and Sampras be using old tennis racquets or the current crop with the sweet spot
practically the whole racquet face?
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 01:10 PM »
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Remember he's 30 now so he shouldn't be able to play at his best but he's still no.3 in the world.

I am impressed that he is playing better than the other players of his age on the tour, but his ranking says more about the guys behind than it does about him, I feel.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 08:54 PM »
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It would be impossible to have a GOAT if the era quality came into question. Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Sampras were all brilliant in their eras but all of them would be heavily beaten if they played against the current crop. And none of them dominated their eras as much as Federer has. Federer did enough against the quality of the opposition he played to win 19 GS titles, the most by any player. Remember he's 30 now so he shouldn't be able to play at his best but he's still no.3 in the world. That's an amazing achievement in itself.

The only place where this argument would come up is an Andy Murray fansite. I think Roger's treatment of Andy (which has been very disrespectful) has clouded a lot of people's judgement of how good Federer actually is. I think that even if all of the top 4 were fit, he'd still have been very hard to beat this week.  Yes, he's smugfed etc. but he's also an amazing tennis player. If anyone is the GOAT, then it has to be Federer.


You lose all your credibility with that statement. I am going to assume you never saw them playing and if you did, then the fact that you say that our judgments are all clouded would apply to you as well. In order to prove your point, you'd have to put these players against the current tops under the same conditions that suit all of them and all the elements would have to be the same as well. Only then you would be able to prove your point but that's virtually impossible.

And the GOAT discussion in reality cannot exist. It's a term produced by the Fedmug fans to highlight and validate his accomplishments. The Universe will not stop producing great players after Federer; in fact, it will continue to create greater players till the very end. Today Federer is sitting with 16 slams; 10 years from now, someone else will be sitting with 18 or 20 slams. It will happen. Records are meant to be broken and it will be broken no matter how much you adore Federer. History will never be kind to only one person but to many. Some always have it easy; some have it hard. Federer had it easy. Even then, he couldn't deal with a baby contender like Nadal whose game wasn't complete by any means. He failed where it counted the most. He got away with a weak field and when he faced up with a real challenge, he failed.  The reason why he's still playing well at age 30 albeit not when playing the current top, is because, he didn't have to compete much in his time, so he still has a lot of mileage left in his legs. Had he had to face what Nadal had to face or Nole or Andy, he'd be all burnt out a long time ago. Like the way Pete did at age 28. The surface, the racquet technology, the weak competition together with easy and convenient draws and schedules have all made it possible for Federer.


BTW Federer won 16 Slams not 19.
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #19 on: November 27, 2011, 08:59 PM »
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He'd have won 20 Slams in 90's.

The current top 4 is once in a generation, they make most eras look crap.
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #20 on: November 27, 2011, 09:05 PM »
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You lose all your credibility with that statement. I am going to assume you never saw them playing and if you did, then the fact that you say that our judgments are all clouded would apply to you as well. In order to prove your point, you'd have to put these players against the current tops under the same conditions that suit all of them and all the elements would have to be the same as well. Only then you would be able to prove your point but that's virtually impossible.

And the GOAT discussion in reality cannot exist. It's a term produced by the Fedmug fans to highlight and validate his accomplishments. The Universe will not stop producing great players after Federer; in fact, it will continue to create greater players till the very end. Today Federer is sitting with 16 slams; 10 years from now, someone else will be sitting with 18 or 20 slams. It will happen. Records are meant to be broken and it will be broken no matter how much you adore Federer. History will never be kind to only one person but to many. Some always have it easy; some have it hard. Federer had it easy. Even then, he couldn't deal with a baby contender like Nadal whose game wasn't complete by any means. He failed where it counted the most. He got away with a weak field and when he faced up with a real challenge, he failed.  The reason why he's still playing well at age 30 albeit not when playing the current top, is because, he didn't have to compete much in his time, so he still has a lot of mileage left in his legs. Had he had to face what Nadal had to face or Nole or Andy, he'd be all burnt out a long time ago. Like the way Pete did at age 28. The surface, the racquet technology, the weak competition together with easy and convenient draws and schedules have all made it possible for Federer.

BTW Federer won 16 Slams not 19.

Great points, well made. You always write very eloquently, Emma. And I love the past tense on 'Federer won 16 slams'.
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #21 on: November 27, 2011, 09:17 PM »
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He'd have won 20 Slams in 90's.

The current top 4 is once in a generation, they make most eras look crap.

That's a theory not a fact. I hope you understand that. The 80s are arguably the best era followed by 90s and this is by the people who have lived through all eras btw.

In fact, the current top aren't as strong as it seems. Andy is still not as strong as he hasn't won a slam yet. Nadal's game is still incomplete despite his 10 slams. Nole tends to shine once a blue moon. He's consistent but not consistent enough. All the great players in the past eras had solid games and were far more competitive.

In this era, we are seeing one dominance after another and it's not flattering at all when you see one great player getting owned by the next even in their prime.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #22 on: November 27, 2011, 09:21 PM »
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Great points, well made. You always write very eloquently, Emma. And I love the past tense on 'Federer won 16 slams'.

Thanks Grapcopy, I do try! And I love to use Fed in the past tense! lol
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 12:15 AM »
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Also, let's discuss those Wimbledon jackets and cardigans and precisely how disrespectful they were to his opponents.

At the height of this nonsense, back in about 06, I was half expecting him to ride onto Centre Court on the back of a monogrammed unicorn accompanied by a heavenly choir.

roflmao  Nigel, you really did make me laugh out loud at that one!

wtf  What the hell was someone thinking?



* Smugfed.JPG (32.78 KB, 306x688 - viewed 536 times.)
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 01:41 AM »
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Federer is so delusional, really. I am surprised Mirka didn't stop him. I mean what a good wife is for anyway.

We did make quite a bit of fun of that outfit back then. It was hilarious!
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 02:11 AM »
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I'll admit I had tears streaming down my face when he walked out in that outfit.  All you can do is laugh.  Was that the year that Rafa missed with injury?

I remember him saying that all the guys in the locker room thought the outfit looked great. Surely they must have been laughing behind his back.

I'm not sure that outfit can be topped. I guess we'll see in 2012.
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 09:49 AM »
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You know what the worst thing about that outfit is? The disrespect to his opponent in so clearly saying 'I am going to win today' - because if he'd lost, wearing that, he'd have looked an even bigger to**er than he already is.
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 08:35 PM »
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Trying to post a link to a Twitterer that isn't working.

Basically, go onto Twitter and look for PseudoFed. It's very much worthwhile.

'All I want for Xmas is me.'

'Goodbye, my London fans. It has been a pleasure for you all.'
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16 Grand Slams = peRFection

Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 09:28 PM »
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16 grand slams more than anyone in history, more Wtfs than anyone in history more consecutive semi finals than anyone in history 3 times reaching the final of all 4 grand slams in one year.

The only other player who may have a claim to the Goat title is Rod Laver but back in the day the competition was not what it was Roger has dominated when the depth is better than ever and is deservedly the GOAT
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 09:29 PM »
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Trying to post a link to a Twitterer that isn't working.

Basically, go onto Twitter and look for PseudoFed. It's very much worthwhile.

'All I want for Xmas is me.'

'Goodbye, my London fans. It has been a pleasure for you all.'

I love PseudoFed! So funny and of course #humble all the time. Wink
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