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Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss.

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Elly
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #180 on: July 26, 2012, 12:18 AM »
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No, what is inherently stupid is when people like make someone something he is clearly not. There's no doubt that he is one of the greatest players along with Laver, Sampras, Borg, Nadal etc. and no one's denying that, but he did benefit a lot from the weak competition and all those stats that I have posted so far, they all indicate that. Try to say a bit more constructive than that.

But why don't you clarify first as to why you think Andy has a chip in his shoulder? Yes, you are not a fan Federer and I am not sure what that means since you never miss a chance to defend him and then talk about Andy's chip but anyway, do tell me, what kind of chip does Andy have on his shoulder?

And as to Indrachap, he/she has yet to say anything about Andy. All she's doing is defending Federer basically everywhere and from day one. Nothing wrong with that but where's the mention of Andy in of this? If she's a fan, I am sure she'd at least take part in some of the conversations that are taking place in the Andy Talk section? Right.
I'm afraid you've like kind of lost me, chuck. Smile
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #181 on: July 26, 2012, 12:21 AM »
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Clay is the final test of a tennis player - the ultimate examination of the robustness of your strokes. And Hamburg, where he won four of those titles, is seen as possibly the fastest clay surface on the tour, with a low bounce.

I don't think any particular surface is the pinnacle of tennis but if that was the case, then it should be grass since that's where it all started. Clay is probably the hardest to play on unless you are born into it and it's a definite advantage to those who grew up on it, but fast grass surface along with fast carpet is equally hard to play on.
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Elly
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #182 on: July 26, 2012, 12:22 AM »
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I used to enjoy this forum.  Now needles under one's nails becomes preferable.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #183 on: July 26, 2012, 12:23 AM »
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I'm afraid you've like kind of lost me, chuck. Smile

If you feel lost then you are not following the conversation all that well and that's including your very own.
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Elly
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #184 on: July 26, 2012, 12:24 AM »
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If you feel lost then you are not following the conversation all that well and that's including your very own.
Oh well, I can live with it. Smile
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scotnadian
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #185 on: July 26, 2012, 12:39 AM »
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Emma.. don't be messing with Elly. She's coolest. yes

Elly... whereyabeen, baby?  Very Happy
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #186 on: July 26, 2012, 12:45 AM »
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Federer basically won less than 1 clay title a year (0.67% - 15 years on tour) and personally I don't feel that's anything outstanding. Better than Sampras for sure but then again, Sampras was never as keen as some of these small tournaments were concerned but clay in particular. He had a different sets of goals which he pretty much achieved. Federer has different sets of goals and he's someone who clearly takes even a small tournament seriously. You'd almost never see him dumping a tournament. It's extremely rare. Nadal, Djokovic, Murray they have all done it. Sampras did a number of times but it's very rare for Federer. Just goes to show how seriously he takes this tennis career of his.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean July 26, 2012, 12:55 AM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #187 on: July 26, 2012, 12:51 AM »
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Emma.. don't be messing with Elly. She's coolest. yes

Elly... whereyabeen, baby?  Very Happy

Well, she's a closet Federer fan for one so I am not sure about the "coolest" part and then she went all girly and pulled an emotional blackmail card out of nowhere. Cool people don't do that. lol

Anyway, I don't care who's here for how long. As I see it, I am discussing tennis and Federer just happens to be a part of it.

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TheMadHatter
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #188 on: July 26, 2012, 04:14 AM »
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Oh my gosh.  I know we aren't Fed fans on here - why would we be?  However, I can't sit and take the nonsense that this guy is just not something else.  For me - it's like we're all ignoring the fact that an elephant is walking through the room. Nuts.  This guy has seen pretenders come and go, yet still reigns supreme.  I'm not a fan, but I'm not about to belittle his achievements.  To do so would just be inherently stupid.
No-one's denying  his achievements Elly, it's just these utterly tedious GOAT chatter when it's not even debateable due to being impossible to compare eras anyway. Not to mention Borg retiring in his prime completely distorting his record.

Anyone with half-a-brain can see Federer is one of the greatest players of all time. But as EJ has pointed out (fantastically I might add) over the last few pages with some great research, there's a strong argument that he's not even the greatest player of this era, let alone all time. It's a ridiculous argument and EJ is done has given numerous reasons to disprove it.

The rest of it is just reasoned discussion about the 'weak' era prior to the other 3 that now make up the top 4 arriving on the scene. If there's one thing that gets my goat it's people that attack others for merely discussing something because they believe their opinion is right and anything is else is nonsense. This isn't directed at you mind, just people in general who do that; I've seen it many times on football forums.
[ Last edit by TheMadHatter July 26, 2012, 04:18 AM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #189 on: July 26, 2012, 05:28 PM »
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I am having a similar conversation on the other forum as well as I have sort of gone back there but don't post as often. Maybe once a week or so. They don't know though that I post here. Anyway this forum has about 80% Federer fans and about 3 Andy, 2 Nole fans and rest are Nadal fans. lolol. But because I've been posting there for quite sometime now (since 2008), they know me very well. No one has protested as much but this is the last post sitting there and I have yet to reply back. I am just not finding enough time. Anway, this was by a Federer fan of course:

Quote
Was going to really take exception to Emma's post, but Sampras' 1st G'S title is pretty impressive.  Muster was on hardcourts not his best surface but he was already good, Agassi was in good form and Lendl was down a little from his peak but still tough.  Mac unfortunately was quite a bit off his prime even though he wasn't terribly old.  What I do take exception with is 2003 being 'only Agassi' - Hewitt was in his prime, better than when he beat Sampras a couple years earlier.  Roddick was also a force, playing fearlessly and with a flatter more dangerous forehand.  Hewitt was very tough until injuries started taking a toll in the mid 2000s, and the fact that Fed dominated him from 2003 on has more to do with Fed's complete game than any deficiency in Hewitt's.  Also remember that Hewitt was/is right up there with Nadal in terms of tenacity and competitive will.

As far as that big list of players, is it that they were better than today's crew, or is it just that today's big 3 are more consistent than Pete?  Seems near certain that each of the big 3 is MUCH more accomplished on clay than Sampras.


As you can see, the clay argument resurfaces once again. And much more emphasis on Roddick who IMO is an average player. Hewitt peaked early and was done by the end of 2002. Agassi was in his early to mid 30s during Federer’s prime.
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Elly
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #190 on: July 26, 2012, 10:25 PM »
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Emma.. don't be messing with Elly. She's coolest. yes

Elly... whereyabeen, baby?  Very Happy
I've been farting about a bit busy as per usual - probably trying to decide if I'm cool enough for school.  Very Happy
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Elly
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #191 on: July 26, 2012, 10:33 PM »
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No-one's denying  his achievements Elly, it's just these utterly tedious GOAT chatter when it's not even debateable due to being impossible to compare eras anyway. Not to mention Borg retiring in his prime completely distorting his record.

Anyone with half-a-brain can see Federer is one of the greatest players of all time. But as EJ has pointed out (fantastically I might add) over the last few pages with some great research, there's a strong argument that he's not even the greatest player of this era, let alone all time. It's a ridiculous argument and EJ is done has given numerous reasons to disprove it.

The rest of it is just reasoned discussion about the 'weak' era prior to the other 3 that now make up the top 4 arriving on the scene. If there's one thing that gets my goat it's people that attack others for merely discussing something because they believe their opinion is right and anything is else is nonsense. This isn't directed at you mind, just people in general who do that; I've seen it many times on football forums.
Yes, I get all of what you're saying and what EJ is. I don't think anyone on here is attacking each other - at least I hope not.  I do see where EJ is coming from with the stats and stuff, and I see that it does lead into a big debate re the GOAT.  However, I'm not sure just where the measure ends.  In Borg's era there were Connors, McEnroe and other great players.  I'm sure having great players around is not unique in Andy's time, and I still think Fed deserves respect.  I'm wishing more than anything for Andy, and I always will, and I so hope he gets the monkey off his back. 
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Emma Jean
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #192 on: July 27, 2012, 01:51 AM »
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Federer gets much more respect than anyone can think of. Out of 100% tennis fans in general out there, at least 70% of them love him and that includes pretty much everyone from all walks of life. Only a few don't like him all that much and that includes me as well. There's not doubt in my mind that he's one of the greatest players of all time along with Sampras, Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Nadal etc. and he's got a good game to watch as well, but he's also quite obnoxious and conceited. I find it very hard to swallow when some of these Federer fans suggest that given how much he’s achieved it’s okay to be slightly arrogant. I never get that logic. There are so many great figures out there but very rarely do they take their achievements for personal glory and they have done true wonders to humanity and advanced us as a human race and yet, remained extremely down to earth. Federer’s glory is all self-directed; it’s all a mere personal gain given that it’s only a game after all, so I don’t see why it should be seen as if he’s cured cancer; therefore, should be respected without a doubt? I’d much rather reserve my respect for a guy like Salman Khan who’s giving out free education to children through internet.  Why choose someone who’s so obnoxious over someone who’s so down to earth? Just because he’s a great player? But shouldn't a person and his personality come first? In what world does that make sense I ask.

Sampras was so good throughout his career. Never did talk all that much to begin with and even when Agassi made quite a few derogatory remarks, he kept it quite. And he was never short of compliments when it came to his opponents and never blamed anything else for his losses. And look at our Andy. Not a day go by that I don’t love him a bit more if it’s at al possible. When I look at him all I see is a very down to earth humble guy, who’s so flattered that he’s here and loved so much and feels almost embarrassed about it at times, as if he doesn’t deserve any of it. Now that’s a true human being right there for you. Your achievements should never be bigger than who you truly are.

But if you truly want to talk about respect and how much Federer deserves it then I can tell you that Federer fans are terrible at showing any respect to Nadal. In fact, most of them hate him with a passion and won't miss a chance to belittle him. So it's already asking so much when the very fans can't return the same favour to another player. The man himself has problems showing respect to his opponents to start with.  
[ Last edit by Emma Jean July 27, 2012, 09:26 PM ] IP Logged
Bevc
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #193 on: September 21, 2012, 07:44 AM »
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Some things could really make you go off a tournie Eyebrow raise.

Australian Open
In our search for the GOAT, we've collated 10 of Roger Federer's great achievements for you. http://www.tennis.com.au/news/2012/09/21/friday-10-to-1-roger-federers-greatest-moments Do you have any to add? Vote4theGOAT

Australian Open
Who is the greatest men's tennis player of all time? 'FedEx' Roger Federer or 'Rocket' Rod Laver? We're giving you the chance to have your say, we're asking you to Vote for the GOAT! http://on.fb.me/T7IOrQ

From their facebook page Rolling Eyes
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Sabine
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Re: Federer is not the GOAT. Discuss. « Reply #194 on: September 21, 2012, 08:43 AM »
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OK, I already feel stupid asking this what is the full form of GOAT? God Of something Tennis???
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