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Ali
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Is Federer the GOAT? « on: February 02, 2009, 07:11 PM »
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 Fed the best player ever!!!!!!
I have this arguement with the other half. Silly sod.
 How can he be, I say.
 Everyone says so, he replies.
Its like the Emporers new clothes story. Who will be bold enough to say different.


Mod NoticeSplit posts from 'Australian Open 2009' to create new topic and named it, 'Is Federer to the GOAT?'.
[ Last edit by Mark February 03, 2009, 09:15 AM ] IP Logged
Elly
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 07:39 PM »
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 Fed the best player ever!!!!!!
I have this arguement with the other half. Silly sod.
 How can he be, I say.
 Everyone says so, he replies.
Its like the Emporers new clothes story. Who will be bold enough to say different.

When you stop to think.... Federer didn't really have many really, really good opponents when he was at his height.   He has achieved heaps but, when you look back at the like of Borg's era where there were the like of Connors, McEnroe around ..... no comparison really.  A shame in a way,  because it's probably done Fed no favours.  For me, he's been a bit guilty of resting on his laurels and he's got that used to beating players who are not in his league, that he can't deal now with players who are in his league, and in a league above him.  Probably got so comfortable with his game and thinking he didn't need to do any more...... Rafa and Murray have shown that's not the case, and now it's too late - hence the crying and the barbed jibes - he knows it.  
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Ali
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 07:53 PM »
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lol.... Funnily enough I  was thinking  that in the kichen just. Then saw your reply.

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Elly
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 08:00 PM »
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lol.... Funnily enough I  was thinking  that in the kichen just. Then saw your reply.


highfive  That your wee one in the pic?  Soooo cute!
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Ali
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 08:08 PM »
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highfive  That your wee one in the pic?  Soooo cute!
 
 My grandaughter. 9 weeks.  She's been watching the tennis  when with me and awake. starting her early. Love her to bits
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Elly
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 08:41 PM »
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 My grandaughter. 9 weeks.  She's been watching the tennis  when with me and awake. starting her early. Love her to bits

Aww.... good stuff.... get her in there early!  She's lovely.  Smile
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Torin
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 09:43 PM »
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When you stop to think.... Federer didn't really have many really, really good opponents when he was at his height.   He has achieved heaps but, when you look back at the like of Borg's era where there were the like of Connors, McEnroe around ..... no comparison really.  A shame in a way,  because it's probably done Fed no favours.  For me, he's been a bit guilty of resting on his laurels and he's got that used to beating players who are not in his league, that he can't deal now with players who are in his league, and in a league above him.  Probably got so comfortable with his game and thinking he didn't need to do any more...... Rafa and Murray have shown that's not the case, and now it's too late - hence the crying and the barbed jibes - he knows it.   
Borg was very impressive, no doubt about it. Would have been interesting to see how much he would have achieved had he not retired at 26.

But more impressive to me were Rosewall and Laver, who won more major titles than any other men in history (19 slams and 23 major professional pre-open era titles between them, not to mention 17 slams in the doubles) and did this during careers which ran concurrently with each other.

But it's a symptom of the modern psyche that best right now is generally interpreted as greatest ever in a lot of sports. Either that, or the GOAT in the majority of individual sports has been around in the last decade or so - off the top of my head Federer, Woods, Schumacher, Phelps, Armstrong, Phil Taylor, Stephen Hendry (or, laughably, O'Sullivan in the eyes of some), and I'm sure I've missed a couple. Ok, I'd give you at least one of those (Taylor), perhaps as many as four, but all of them? No way.


And Federer's nearest challenger when he was winning a lot of his titles was a teenage clay court specialist way before his peak, which has to say something.
[ Last edit by Torin February 02, 2009, 09:49 PM ] IP Logged
Elly
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 09:59 PM »
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I'm not in a position to extol the virtues of Laver or Rosewell tbh.....  before my time Wink  but I agree with the sentiment that the best right now is/are  interpreted as the greatest ever.... and it's pants and pure hype.  It's strange that people feel the need to jump on a bandwagon these days.

I feel Borg retired at 26 because he knew he had achieved all he could.  He wanted to go out when he was still a relative winner.... Shrug  I can get that.   Different strokes for different folks, I guess......
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Neil
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 10:14 PM »
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GOAT list - Fed.... not yet
Woods . Erm Yes 100%.
Hendry - yes 100%
Taylor - the guy is a machine 100% yes
Phelps - yes, another machine 8 golds? I mean come on
Armstrong - More tours than anyone? Don't know about past cycling so hard to judge, but based on that yes.
Schumacher - the one least likely to be deemed the GOAT, cars change, he was usually in the best etc.

So I'd be giving you 5 from that list of yours. Which is pretty fair if you ask me.
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Neil
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 10:15 PM »
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I'm not in a position to extol the virtues of Laver or Rosewell tbh.....  before my time Wink  but I agree with the sentiment that the best right now is/are  interpreted as the greatest ever.... and it's pants and pure hype.  It's strange that people feel the need to jump on a bandwagon these days.



THis is generally true, but for the ones Torin mentioned, it's very much justified.
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Neil
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 10:16 PM »
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I'd like to point out that yes, while the tennis game has changed, don't Fed and Nadal have 19 slams between them now? Wink
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Torin
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 10:36 PM »
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GOAT list - Fed.... not yet
Woods . Erm Yes 100%.
Hendry - yes 100%
Taylor - the guy is a machine 100% yes
Phelps - yes, another machine 8 golds? I mean come on
Armstrong - More tours than anyone? Don't know about past cycling so hard to judge, but based on that yes.
Schumacher - the one least likely to be deemed the GOAT, cars change, he was usually in the best etc.

So I'd be giving you 5 from that list of yours. Which is pretty fair if you ask me.

For me:

Fed: No
Woods: Not yet, and he's far and away my favourite golfer ever. He might end up being greater than Nicklaus, but as of right now Nicklaus' achievements outstrip his by some distance.
Hendry: Probably. I'd say so, but I was a fan so I might be biased.
Taylor: Definitely.
Phelps: Could well be, but I don't know enough about swimming to split him and Mark Spitz. Spitz won 7 golds with 7 world records at the 1972 games, which is close enough that you need to look at other things such as schedule, quality of opposition etc.
Armstrong: He's got a good case, but he was in an unbelievably strong team that had several top 20 riders in it helping him and that does make a huge difference. Having watched them both at their peak I personally think Indurain was a stronger individual rider in a weaker team. I wasn't fortunate enough to watch Eddy Merckx in his day.
Schumacher: Hard to say, so hard to judge in different cars. Fangio and Senna were also pretty special.
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Torin
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #12 on: February 02, 2009, 10:39 PM »
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I'd like to point out that yes, while the tennis game has changed, don't Fed and Nadal have 19 slams between them now? Wink

You're being deliberately obstreperous now.  :p

As you know, Laver and Rosewall both spent the peak of their careers on the pro circuit. Include their major titles there (which were essentially slams in those days) and they have 42 between them.

 
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Elly
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #13 on: February 02, 2009, 10:59 PM »
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You've lost me guys....... no surprise.......  Smile    Frown
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Torin
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Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #14 on: February 02, 2009, 11:07 PM »
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You've lost me guys....... no surprise.......  Smile    Frown

Aww....  hug
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