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Is Federer the GOAT?

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Jun Mark
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #45 on: February 06, 2009, 08:04 AM »
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Don't bash thy Roger.. or else, he's gonna cry again heheh
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gjr
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #46 on: February 07, 2009, 11:26 AM »
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Not a GOAT unless you've won a GS on each surface imo. Laver owns Fed Smile

Edit: and Agassi!


Although I still think Laver is a goat contender it has to be pointed out that laver didn't win a slam on every surface. 3 of the 4 where played on grass when he won.

Only 4 men have won a slam on every surface.

Wilander. even though he didn't win Wimbledon, ao was played on grass when he won.
Conners. Conners may have not won the french but won the US when it was played on green clay.
Agassi. The modern career grand slam.
Nadal. The only man in history to hold GS titles on 3 seperate surfaces.

I change my GOAT every day, but I think if you look at Feds record of 5 Wimblys, 5 USO's, 3 AO's plus 3 FO finals that stacks up as good as anyone.

I think Rafa will be the true GOAT however. I think he has many more slams in him on all surfaces.

---

As for cycling. Merckx is the true GOAT. While Armstring concentated solely on winning the tour-de-France, Merckx tried to win everything every year. He succeeded for the most part too. He won 5 TDF's to Armstrongs 7 but during his prime he was knocked off his bike by a spectator and injured during another TDF where he could have made it 6. I don't think he was the same rider again.
[ Last edit by gjr February 07, 2009, 11:35 AM ] IP Logged
Daisy
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #47 on: February 07, 2009, 11:53 AM »
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It’s hard to view Roger as the GOAT, currently, when 5 of Rafa’s 6 Slam titles have already come at Roger’s expense;  therefore surely Roger can’t be the greatest when he is second fiddle in his own peer group.  It’s likely that Rafa has about 5 good years left to win the US Open, so perhaps Rafa will end up as the GOAT.
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gjr
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #48 on: February 07, 2009, 12:20 PM »
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It’s hard to view Roger as the GOAT, currently, when 5 of Rafa’s 6 Slam titles have already come at Roger’s expense;  therefore surely Roger can’t be the greatest when he is second fiddle in his own peer group.  It’s likely that Rafa has about 5 good years left to win the US Open, so perhaps Rafa will end up as the GOAT.


In the other slam Rafa beat him in the semi's too. So in winning his 6 slams Rafa has had to beat Fed every time.
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #49 on: February 07, 2009, 02:14 PM »
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I can't understand the logic of equating Nadal over Federer purely on the basis that he more often than not beats him when it comes to GS finals.  Federer winning more grand slams during the Nadal era should take precedent over who wins when they meet.

Times can change (especially with Nadal playing well on all surfaces now), and there are other factors that merit placing Nadal over Federer in a GOAT comparison (winning on all three surfaces), but the head to head record is not one of them.
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Torin
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #50 on: February 08, 2009, 02:48 AM »
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Although I still think Laver is a goat contender it has to be pointed out that laver didn't win a slam on every surface. 3 of the 4 where played on grass when he won.


That's pretty harsh, given that the first grand slam on a hard court was 1978. If you're saying there's a requirement to have won a slam on a hard court then you're not talking about the greatest of all time, you're talking about the greatest of the last 31 years.

Given that he won every slam at least twice, I think it's safe to say that had hard court slams existed in the 60s then Laver would likely have won at least one.


As for cycling. Merckx is the true GOAT. While Armstring concentated solely on winning the tour-de-France, Merckx tried to win everything every year. He succeeded for the most part too. He won 5 TDF's to Armstrongs 7 but during his prime he was knocked off his bike by a spectator and injured during another TDF where he could have made it 6. I don't think he was the same rider again.


Interesting, thank you. I don't know as much as I should about cycling history.
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #51 on: February 08, 2009, 11:02 PM »
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I find this whole area troubling. Part of me thinks that Fed has lived through  a weak era compared to Borg, who had McEnroe and Connors to deal with, who both won 7/8 GS. But then I think, maybe Fed is just so good that he's denied the others from this era the chance to win those slams. It's a philosophical minefield and there's simply no way of knowing.

What I will say is that he can't be considered the GOAT until he wins GSs on all 3 surfaces. The only ones to do that - EVER, bearing in mind Laver won his calendar-year slams only on grass and clay - are Agassi and Nadal. For that reason, they're both right up there - with Borg, for winning back-to-back FOs and Wimbledons 3 times.

This is going to sound dumb, but I don't rate Sampras. Clay is the ultimate examination of a player and his weaknesses were shown up in Paris. Fed is better on clay than Sampras and therefore a better player.

1 Agassi
2 Borg
3 Nadal
4 Federer
5 Laver
6 Sampras.
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maxply
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #52 on: February 08, 2009, 11:09 PM »
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Mercks was punched and fell of his bike,his jaw was broken and he rode the rest of the race with his jaw wired up.
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #53 on: February 08, 2009, 11:14 PM »
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Mercks was punched and fell of his bike,his jaw was broken and he rode the rest of the race with his jaw wired up.


Pah. The gay boy. South African rugby player Wayne Shelford had his scrotum ripped open by a French boot, left the field for 18 stitches on the touchline and then returned to the action.
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #54 on: February 08, 2009, 11:17 PM »
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Sorry, he was a kiwi. This is the report of the incident on Wikipedia:

Roughly 20 minutes into the match, he was caught at the bottom of a rather aggressive ruck, and an errant French boot found its way into Shelford's groin, somehow ripping his scrotum and leaving one testicle hanging free. He also lost four teeth in the process. Incredibly, after discovering the injury to his scrotum, he calmly asked the physio to stitch up the tear and returned to the field before a blow to his head left him concussed. He has no memory of the game.
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Mark
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #55 on: February 08, 2009, 11:55 PM »
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That is amazing shocking
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #56 on: June 08, 2009, 10:01 AM »
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Road To The Record Book

Roger Federer tied Pete Sampras for the most Grand Slam titles with 14. Here's how the two match up:
 Federer Sampras
Age at 14th major title 27 years, 303 days 31 years, 27 days
Slam finals record 14-5 14-4
Slams before winning 14th 40 52
Overall record 650-155 762-222
Titles 59 64
Total weeks at No. 1 237 286


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french09/news/story?id=4238813&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
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Daisy
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #57 on: July 07, 2009, 08:51 AM »
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Shadow of Nadal hangs over Federer's claim to be the greatest.
Roger Federer's head-to-head record against Rafael Nadal means the title of 'greatest ever' may remain just out of his reach

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/06/roger-federer-greatest-rafael-nadal
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Yamor
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #58 on: July 07, 2009, 10:03 AM »
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My problem with that specific reasoning against Federer being the GOAT, is that noone ever argues Fed is better then Rafa on clay. Now, taking away clay from their head-to-head leaves Fed ahead even though his game has got worse in recent years.
Remember, the reason why they have played over half their matches on clay (even though a large majority of the season isn't clay) is because of Nadal's inability to reach finals on hard until recently (and remember they can only meet in finals).

For me, a bigger problem is that until a year or two ago it was possible to argue that it was a weak era.
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Re: Is Federer the GOAT? « Reply #59 on: July 07, 2009, 12:35 PM »
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There's so much that stacks up in Fed's favour, I admit. But there's so much against, too. He's just won the French and Wimbledon without ever facing Nadal, Murray or Djokovic. All you can conclude from that in Federer's favour is that he's better than the other 3 at staying healthy and dispatching players from outside the top 4.
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