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Author Topic: Milos Raonic  (Read 4270 times)
Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #45 on: January 09, 2012, 02:48 PM »
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But Cilic has horrible design flaws. Have you seen his forehand? He just can't correct it.

I wouldn't say Cilic's forehand is flawed but rather it needs to be controlled. Same thing you can say about Dolgopolov's forehand and a few others. Controlled aggression as they say is what they need. If they somehow develop it, they will be more successful. This is the reason why Federer and Nadal forehands are so successful.

IMO flawed design and having more control on things are entirely two different things.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #46 on: January 09, 2012, 02:58 PM »
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American players just seem to be turned into serving machines, to the detriment of the rest of their game. You've gotta ask why Shrug

That's pure generalization and quite untrue. You have the likes of McEnroe, Agassi, Connors, Chang, Courier (endless list basically) who were either baseliners or S&V players. They were never known for having a powerful serve.

On the other hand, you have the likes of Michael Stich, Boris Becker, Richard Krajicek,   Goran Ivanisevic who were European players and mainly known for their big serve.
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scotnadian
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #47 on: January 09, 2012, 03:06 PM »
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Not my kind of tennis, Raonic I mean , not Fed. Thought match extremely boring- unreturnable serve after unreturnable serve.
Actually felt sorry for Tipsaravic - yikes. shocking
Did you see the whole match bbh?
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Grabcopy
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #48 on: January 09, 2012, 03:10 PM »
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And speaking of Agassi.. I too was a huge fan, but was really disappointed when I read his book.

I was, and I wasn't. I was disappointed about the hating tennis thing, although part of me wonders how exaggerated that was just to sell the book. But I was stunned by the compelling writing.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #49 on: January 09, 2012, 03:19 PM »
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The serve won Sampras 14 slams. Had no game otherwise. #mostunwatchableplayerever

wow Nigel - Knowing you at least a bit, I would have never expected that from you. That has taken me by huge surprise. No one on this planet can win 14 Slams depending on the serve alone. Such blanket statement, really. Even technically it's not possible. There's a reason why a slam consists of five sets. It's very hard to sustain three sets purely based on serve alone. It will fade as you go along because it requires attention to the highest level. Not only that, you have to feel supremely confident to make it work all the way. Sampras had played against many big servers in his time as well; in fact, too many and because he had so much to offer other than his serve, he was the one who came on top.

You should also know that Sampras was at first an all court player and used to play double handed backhand but he changed his game around and became an S&V player in early 90s to late 90s.

His powerful serve (both 1st & 2nd) along with his running forehand, amazing volleys, overheads were all his signature shots and he will always be known for those not just the serve alone. He’s known as having the best running forehand, best serve, and having one of the best volleys in tennis history.

To say that he won 14 slams based on his serve alone and that he had no other game to it is such an insult to a great player like Sampras. You see, I have little respect for Fedals fans because they are obnoxious, fanatics, lack true knowledge of tennis but more importantly, they are unable to give any respect to the previous champions. But you are not one of them I’d really like to think.
[ Last edit by -Emma- January 09, 2012, 04:21 PM ] IP Logged
scotnadian
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #50 on: January 09, 2012, 03:21 PM »
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I was, and I wasn't. I was disappointed about the hating tennis thing, although part of me wonders how exaggerated that was just to sell the book. But I was stunned by the compelling writing.
I just felt disillusioned because he was not the person I thought he was. For someone who hates tennis that much, he's still playing.  Have you seen his Hall of Fame Induction Speech? Some say 'awwww'... I say 'yuk.'
Glad he got himself cleaned up tho', and built a better relationship with his father.
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scotnadian
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #51 on: January 09, 2012, 03:23 PM »
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Hey Emma... there you are... see what you've been missing!! roflmao
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blueberryhill
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #52 on: January 09, 2012, 04:12 PM »
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Did you see the whole match bbh?
Sets 2 and 3 and don't know why I bothered. Just not my cup of tea.
Emma, Aren't you talking past eras? Isner, Querry, Roddick, Raonic and Grabcopy adds Sampras.
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #53 on: January 09, 2012, 04:15 PM »
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wow Nigel - Knowing you at least a bit, I would have never expected that from you. That has taken me by huge surprise. No one on this planet can win 14 Slams depending on the serve alone. Such blanket statement, really. Even technically it's not possible. There's a reason why a slam consists of five sets. It's very hard to sustain three sets purely based on serve alone. It will fade as you go along because it requires attention to the highest level. Not only that, you have to feel supremely confident to make it work all the way. Sampras had played against many big serves in his time as well; in fact, too many and because he had so much to offer other than his serve, he was the one who came on top.

You should also know that Sampras was at first an all court player and used to play double handed backhand but he changed his game around and became an S&V player in early 90s to late 90s.

His powerful serve (both 1st & 2nd) along with his running forehand, amazing volleys, overheads were all his signature shots and he will always be known for those not just the serve alone. He’s known as having the best running forehand, best serve, and one of the best volleys in tennis history.

To say that he won 14 slams based on his serve alone and that he had no other game to it is such an insult to a great player like Sampras. You see, I have little respect for Fedals fans because they are obnoxious, fanatics, lack true knowledge of tennis but more importantly, they are unable to give any respect to the previous champions. But you are not one of them I’d really like to think.


OK, OK, I was exaggerating. I just really, really disliked Sampras's style of play. I absolutely hate serve and volley. I stand by my assertion that he had no backhand, though. Especially obvious on clay.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #54 on: January 09, 2012, 04:18 PM »
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You're only as good as your clay game, and he got found out on clay. Had no backhand. Also, apart from Agassi, who was in and out of the game, there wasn't much opposition. I reckon much of the 90s was a weak era.

70s to late 80s - strong era
90s to 2006-ish - weak era
06 on - strong era

You are not being very objective. The era was very strong until mid-90. Even late 90s were stronger than 00s. Clay field was especially strong with too many clay specialists around. It was very hard for an outsider, who did not grow up on clay, to get past the first few rounds at the FO or any clay event for that matter. Even then Sampras managed to get a few titles on clay. But to be more honest with you, Pete never had any real interest on clay. He never liked the surface. Hard and grass were his favourite surfaces and he'd always focus more on those events; hence why he had so many titles on both. Similarly, those clay court specialists had never done anything significant outside clay either. And the fact that, they pretty much grew up on clay, gave them a definitive advantage to that surface. They were unable to make noise outside clay and Nadal being the only exception but even so, that was the case of the surface homogenization.

Agassi, for example, being a pure baseliner wasn’t able to win FO until 1999 even though he was tagged to do so much earlier. Ironically, his first slam was Wimbledon. None of the clay courters won anything outside clay on those days as opposed to those American players, who were good at least on two surfaces - hard and grass – though they hardly grew up on grass. That's more of a European territory. Doesn't say much about those clay specialists. They would typically bomb out of all other Slams with the exception of only a few – even so, they wouldn’t get past the qtr.

06 on - strong era isn't all that strong either with Federer and Nadal winning most of the Slams in the alternative years. Even Novak winning 3 of the 4 Slams just last year says it all especially when you have both Federer and Nadal around. The guy beat 3 of the top four guys and quite handily so. That's not competition, my friend, that's pure domination - just like Federer dominated in those early years of 00s. Any wise guy will tell you that strong era doesn’t consist one guy dominating all others.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #55 on: January 09, 2012, 04:23 PM »
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I'll concede that the late 90s was a strong era for clay.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #56 on: January 09, 2012, 04:26 PM »
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Sets 2 and 3 and don't know why I bothered. Just not my cup of tea.
Emma, Aren't you talking past eras? Isner, Querry, Roddick, Raonic and Grabcopy adds Sampras.

Blueberry, I am talking in general not only past eras. Yes, there are Querry, Roddick and Raonic but there are also Harrison, Young and a few others. It's a mixed bunch as I see and it has always been that way. In fact, America has produced many great players and not just one.

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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #57 on: January 09, 2012, 04:29 PM »
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Emma, yes indeed and Johnny Mac is my favourite player ever. But the trend does seem to be for these huge boring servers. I'm probably prejudiced because I can't stand that kind of game...and I just watched Raonic!
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #58 on: January 09, 2012, 04:32 PM »
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I'll concede that the late 90s was a strong era for clay.

And hard. I can be anal that way. :p


US Open past champions:

1996 Pete Sampras
1997 Patrick Rafter
1998 Patrick Rafter
1999 Andre Agassi
2000 Marat Safin
2001 Lleyton Hewitt
2002 Pete Sampras

Australian Open past champions:

1996 Boris Becker (GER)
1997 Pete Sampras (USA)
1998 Petr Korda (CZE)
1999 Yevgeny Kafelnikov (RUS)
2000 Andre Agassi (USA)
2001 Andre Agassi (USA)
2002 Thomas Johansson (SWE)
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Emma Jean
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Re: Milos Raonic « Reply #59 on: January 09, 2012, 04:42 PM »
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Emma, yes indeed and Johnny Mac is my favourite player ever. But the trend does seem to be for these huge boring servers. I'm probably prejudiced because I can't stand that kind of game...and I just watched Raonic!

Raonic is not a very good example,really. And he is still young. He should adjust his game or develop his rest of the game. He wasn't able to break Tipsy and Tipsy isn't exactly your big server, so that doesn't say much. But more importantly, Raonic is one of the few only not the whole and true story.

But there's a problem with players like Raonic in general or Del Potro for example. They are too tall and big for the game. They both put those Sumo wrestlers to shame in the moving department. But more so, if you check back in history, you will see that none of the great champions were either that tall or that big. And they all moved significantly well. Sampras moved like a wild cat! There was absolutely no sound even when he was on the run and was in full stretch. One has to move very well as far as tennis is concerned. It's an essential aspect of the game that one must possess.

I won’t continue with Raonic anymore because I don’t want to upset Scot. I like her too much! lol
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