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Rafael Nadal

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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3345 on: May 04, 2013, 09:26 PM »
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shocking  It's scary how quickly people can get out of control in these situations.  Obviously a step-up in security is needed.

Its a scary and sad combo. People acting like morons over the proximity of a sportsperson. Get a grip of yourselves Rafa fans!
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Masaka
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3346 on: May 04, 2013, 09:37 PM »
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I think that's a bit harsh, I totally agree the samples should not be destroyed and we should know who any dodgy samples belong to. However there is no evidence that Nadal or Ferrer have been doping and don't see why they (and hundreds other spanish sports stars) should be deprived of what is their jobs. If it happened in the UK would you want Andy banned? As for Nadal toeing the party line - he was being criticised the other day for not speaking out, what else could he say, he seems to be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If such a thing happened in the UK, whereby there was evidence of a doping cover up on a national scale, would I support a international ban on British Athletes, including Mr M competing? Yes I would.

I think those blood samples would indicate just how widespread doping is in Spanish Sport, and nobody seems to give a damn.  No there is no actual evidence of Nadal and Ferrer doping, however Nadal has been under suspicion for years - suspicions not helped by the recent knee farce.  Didn't Armstrong pass many a doping test, and swear blind he was clean?
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wimbledonwestie
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3347 on: May 04, 2013, 09:39 PM »
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If there was a suspicion of a cover up over teachers abusing pupils I wouldn't be too chuffed if they decided no teacher was allowed to teach til it was investigated. It's the same principle.
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Masaka
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3348 on: May 04, 2013, 09:55 PM »
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If there was a suspicion of a cover up over teachers abusing pupils I wouldn't be too chuffed if they decided no teacher was allowed to teach til it was investigated. It's the same principle.

If there was a suspicion of an abuse ring in a school, I would expect there to be a complete ban on all of the teachers in that institution from teaching, until it was resolved. Equally if there is a major suspicion relating to a countries sports people, then I think it is perfectly reasonable to suspend all of the competitors from competing. There is a very easy way to resolve this - hand over the frozen samples to the relevant authorities. If the Spanish government is being actively complicit in a doping cover up, then the right of Spanish Athletes to compete on the International stage should be rescinded.

If that is the only way to force the Spanish Government to act then that's what should be done. What the Spanish Authorities are saying at the moment, is we know that there are large number of our athletes who have been involved in some form of doping, but we don't care. What sort of message is that sending out? Every Spanish athlete might as well join in, knowing that their government will protect them.

I would have thought that the clean Spanish Athletes (if that is not an oxymoron), would be up in arms about it. Personally I think it's quite telling that they don't seem to be.
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wimbledonwestie
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3349 on: May 04, 2013, 10:29 PM »
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In that school yes .. not nationwide. Anyway, guess we'll agree to disagree.
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Masaka
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3350 on: May 04, 2013, 10:32 PM »
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In that school yes .. not nationwide. Anyway, guess we'll agree to disagree.

Fair enough. I do tend to be very black and white about these things.
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sidtypical
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grrr...

Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3351 on: May 04, 2013, 11:43 PM »
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Doping in sport has become out of control and the authorities don't seem to handle it too well.   Anyone found guilty of performance enhancing drug taking should face an automatic life ban. The penalties at the moment are way too lenient and have reduced the offence from an absolute no-no to a calculated risk.    All sports are being ruined by, either the discovery of doping, or, by the suspicion of it. Clean athletes, and the integrity of sport in general, deserve protection.
Btw, I took performance enhancing alcohol for the last game of RTR- should I resign ? :-)
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3352 on: May 04, 2013, 11:51 PM »
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Doping in sport has become out of control and the authorities don't seem to handle it too well.   Anyone found guilty of performance enhancing drug taking should face an automatic life ban. The penalties at the moment are way too lenient and have reduced the offence from an absolute no-no to a calculated risk.    All sports are being ruined by, either the discovery of doping, or, by the suspicion of it. Clean athletes, and the integrity of sport in general, deserve protection.
Btw, I took performance enhancing alcohol for the last game of RTR- should I resign ? :-)
Yes - absolutely!  Very Happy

It makes a mockery if those who do take performance enhancing drugs and win at anything.  Surely his or her victory must seem very hollow in the cold light of day, and yes, the honest, hard working athletes deserve better from the authorities.
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sidtypical
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grrr...

Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3353 on: May 04, 2013, 11:57 PM »
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My disgrace is complete ! ;-)

Quite right Elly. I suspect money has a lot to do with it. I'm not one who goes for the 'zero tolerance' approach to life, but for this topic, I make an exception.
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3354 on: May 05, 2013, 12:03 AM »
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My disgrace is complete ! ;-)

Quite right Elly. I suspect money has a lot to do with it. I'm not one who goes for the 'zero tolerance' approach to life, but for this topic, I make an exception.
I think Zero tolerance has it's place.  That way, nobody is in any doubt about what's expected - otherwise, it's too easy to blur or cross 'a line'.  It's not that life is or should be black and white, but I do believe there are times when that kind of clarity is required. 
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teejay1
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3355 on: May 05, 2013, 12:38 AM »
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Well at least Rafa has now spoken out about the Doping fiasco, so at least Andy is not alone in his disdain of destroying the blood samples, although i feel Novak should publicly mention it also seeing as he's the number one player in the world, by not doing so raises too many suspicions for his camp.

I agree with this. I think it's important that the top players in the world lead by example with this. At least then it looks like there is solidarity at the top when it comes to these issues.

I'm not sure where I stand on the idea of banning all Spanish athletes. It did occur to me, I admit that, but I don't think it would work. Can they all really be tarred with the same brush? Athletes who then go on to prove themselves clean would sue their sports authorities to high heaven. Surely it could cripple Spanish sport.

What I think needs to happen is that the issue needs clamping down on, hard. I think anyone who fails a drugs test should be banned for life, no debate, no discussion. Just the other day I saw a story about an athlete who won a medal at the Olympics - a long jumper or high jumper, I can't remember off the top of my head. Anyway, it now turns out that she then failed a test and so her medal has been revoked. However, apparently it is not the first time she has been found guilty of doping.

It beggars belief to me that someone who has been found guilty if doping could ever be allowed to compete again. It shouldn't happen, not ever. I know there have been cases of contaminated drinks (I think that was the issue with Greg Rusedski if my memory is right) and there is an issue of whether it is right to end a career in that instance I suppose, but I think athletes need to take some responsibility in that case, to know what they are ingesting. I just think the time has come where it is made clear to all athletes that there will no longer be any tolerance of doping. You get one chance and one chance only. Fail one test and you kiss your career goodbye.
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sidtypical
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grrr...

Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3356 on: May 05, 2013, 12:38 AM »
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Yep, totally agree Elly. I'm prepared to accept that mistakes are possible eg, when a banned substance is found to be in a medicinal product taken by an athlete who is genuinely ill. I think the motive to cheat must be proven - but when it is, you're out !
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3357 on: May 05, 2013, 12:48 AM »
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Yep, totally agree Elly. I'm prepared to accept that mistakes are possible eg, when a banned substance is found to be in a medicinal product taken by an athlete who is genuinely ill. I think the motive to cheat must be proven - but when it is, you're out !
It's not rocket science, and I think the powers that be should be savvy enough to separate the cheats from the rest.  However, I guess some of them are like traffic wardens on speed, and that's a pity for everyone.  Yes, they have a job to do, but don't rack up guys who just happen to be taking a drug for a genuine illness.  I think it's called 'using your common sense'!
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3358 on: May 05, 2013, 01:09 AM »
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It's not rocket science, and I think the powers that be should be savvy enough to separate the cheats from the rest.  However, I guess some of them are like traffic wardens on speed, and that's a pity for everyone.  Yes, they have a job to do, but don't rack up guys who just happen to be taking a drug for a genuine illness.  I think it's called 'using your common sense'!
I don't know about other sports, but tennis players are under an obligation, and a very sensible one too, to tell the tournament doctors what medication they're taking, whether it's prescribed or over the counter.  Also players do have to be careful about buying over the counter medicines because the ingredients and dosages can vary from country to country.  I recall the case  of one sportsman (can't remember which sport) who bought a common brand nasal spray in the US, not realising it contained an ingredient which is classed as a PED, which it doesn't have in Britain - Britain having the toughest legitimate drug regulations in the world.  He partially won his case because WADA took the view that it's up to individuals to read the labels of medicines carefully or check them out with the dispenser, and the only reason he was spared a ban was because he'd already served a lengthy suspension.
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Re: Rafael Nadal « Reply #3359 on: May 05, 2013, 01:23 AM »
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Well at least Rafa has now spoken out about the Doping fiasco, so at least Andy is not alone in his disdain of destroying the blood samples, although i feel Novak should publicly mention it also seeing as he's the number one player in the world, by not doing so raises too many suspicions for his camp.

Novak has in the past.
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