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Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men

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backhandslice
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Gilles Simon, the 13th ranked mens tennis player in the world, said this week at Wimbledon that he believes women tennis players should be paid less than men, because the men’s game is “more attractive.” He added that he thinks equal pay is “something that doesn’t work in sport“:
Simon, the world number 13, had criticised the move towards equality, insisting that the men’s game has more to offer spectators.
“We often speak of equal money, but I think it’s something that doesn’t work in sport,” said Simon.
“Tennis is the only sport today where we have parity even though men’s tennis remains more attractive than women’s at this time.”
Simon is a member of the Association of Tennis Professionals’ player council, which helps advise the tour’s Board of Directors. It was only five years ago that Wimbledon began paying male and female players the same amount, using the fact that men play five sets to womens’ three as justification. Both the U.S. and Australian Opens have been paying equal wages for years.
Even with Wimbeldon’s decision, women tennis players make substantially less than men. As Collin Flake, Mikaela Dufur, and Erin Moore of Brigham Young University found, “Women make $337 less per [tour] point than men, as well as “$27,620 less per singles title won.” Overall, women “are paid $31,337 less per year.”
In a statement, the CEO of the women’s tennis tour, Stacey Allaster, said, “tennis, including the Grand Slams, is aligned with our modern, progressive society when it comes to the principle of equality. I can’t believe in this day and age that anyone can still think otherwise.” Other players have responded similarly. “Over the whole year, we are a long way from winning as much as the men — only in a few tournaments and Grand Slams,” said Marion Bartoli, France’s top women’s player. “We are fully-invested as much as them. The physical demands, training, investment on a personal level are the same as theirs.”
Back in 2007, tennis great John McEnroe said, “I think when you’ve got men and women playing at the same tournament, it is ludicrous to have a difference in pay. It would be setting an example to the rest of society in general to have equal prize money.” Evidently today’s players have yet to catch up with his views.

Stak has also joined the argument in favour.  saying on twitter.  I agree with Gilles.    doh


Equality has arrived, and everyone is rejoicing at the dawning of a new age of peace, prosperity and mutual support between men's and women's tennis.

Except not.

“But we play best of 5 sets,” cried the some of the men. “We're more entertaining. They come to see us play.”


I think this is ridiculous and I can't believe this is still happening in this day of age. This constant refusal by some (journos, fans and tennis players) to not actually say what it is they believe and try to hide behind a cloak of "but I don't want to offend anybody," is almost more infuriating than the misogynistic views on women and equal pay in the workplace, any workplace, that are being published.  You cannot tell me that  Serena Williams or Victoria Azarenka do not train as much as Rafael Nadal or Andy Murray.  I really don't understand why women should be paid any differently than the men on the tour.  Of course everyone knows that the quality of mens tennis is much better than  the womens.  Well you would be wrong my friend if you said that.  Just lets take Andy's match against Davy  for comparison sake, and then compare it to Wozniacki and Paszek.  Caro's match was much longer and of a higher quality than Andy's match. The only thing that those 2 matches have in common is the fact that both Wozniacki and Davydenko will take home the same amount of prize money for a 1st round loss. Pro tennis players, men and women, do not just saunter onto a court with their bag flung over their shoulder, looking for a match, they must earn that right to play in the biggest tournaments. The players work incredibly hard to reach this stage.  They spend years training and they not only cost them large chunks of their lives and time with their families, but it also costs a great deal of money to employ all of the people to help them fulfill a dream.  Men and women alike should accept this – and let the matter drop and let their racquets do the talking. In their different ways, they're usually very good at it.  Equal pay is fair and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Thanks to ScoobsChris and Kelly (@mikomonstrJail) for their views on this.  I added some of my views as well
[ Last edit by Mark June 28, 2012, 10:44 AM ] IP Logged
bhill_mfc
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 10:52 AM »
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It would be interesting to see a wider debate about this somewhere (5live?). I believe in equality but I also believe there are reasonable arguments to be made from both sides on this issue. The issue is far to complex to either be an 'equality-warrior' or a sexist dinosaur stuck in the dark ages.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 11:18 AM »
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I firmly believe in equal pay for the same job.
It is simply not acceptable that people are paid less due to their gender.
However the ATP & WTA players do not do the exact same job & do not recieve the same viewership and frankly are not nearly at the same skill level, never mind the 3 set matches the women play in the slams.
To give the same prize money to women and men under these circumstances is certainly discriminatory against men.
But to me i would be more interestd in seeing the ATP and WTA give more
of their profits to the players, particularly at the lower level in order to make the sport more attractive to more people rather than restricting anybody's pay as it now stands. But in principle i don't think its fair at all.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 11:23 AM »
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 quality of mens tennis is much better than  the womens.  Well you would be wrong my friend if you said that.  Just lets take Andy's match against Davy  for comparison sake, and then compare it to Wozniacki and Paszek.  Caro's match was much longer and of a higher quality than Andy's match. The only thing that those 2 matches have in common is the fact that both Wozniacki and Davydenko will take home the same amount of prize money for a 1st round loss. Pro tennis players, men and women, do not just saunter onto a court with their bag flung over their shoulder, looking for a match, they must earn that right to play in the biggest tournaments. The players work incredibly hard to reach this stage.  They spend years training and they not only cost them large chunks of their lives and time with their families, but it also costs a great deal of money to employ all of the people to help them fulfill a dream.  Men and women alike should accept this – and let the matter drop and let their racquets do the talking. In their different ways, they're usually very good at it.  Equal pay is fair and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Thanks to ScoobsChris and Kelly (@mikomonstrJail) for their views on this.  I added some of my views as well

I saw both matches and i completely disagree with this statement.
Andy Murray is the most skilled player on the tour and put on a masterclass.
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Alis
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 11:33 AM »
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Putting aside the quality of the tennis which can be debated either way - the women have the same expenses to cover as the men.  Airlines and hotels don't charge less if you are a woman than a man so it costs the female players just as much to attend these tournaments as the men - why shouldn't they be paid the same?
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 11:42 AM »
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He has a point, although I disagree with his reasons for it. Ridiculous that Women get paid the same as men in the Slams for three sets whereas the Men have to play five.
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 11:46 AM »
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I think this is ridiculous and I can't believe this is still happening in this day of age. This constant refusal by some (journos, fans and tennis players) to not actually say what it is they believe and try to hide behind a cloak of "but I don't want to offend anybody," is almost more infuriating than the misogynistic views on women and equal pay in the workplace, any workplace, that are being published.  You cannot tell me that  Serena Williams or Victoria Azarenka do not train as much as Rafael Nadal or Andy Murray.  I really don't understand why women should be paid any differently than the men on the tour.  Of course everyone knows that the quality of mens tennis is much better than  the womens.  Well you would be wrong my friend if you said that.  Just lets take Andy's match against Davy  for comparison sake, and then compare it to Wozniacki and Paszek. Caro's match was much longer and of a higher quality than Andy's match. The only thing that those 2 matches have in common is the fact that both Wozniacki and Davydenko will take home the same amount of prize money for a 1st round loss. Pro tennis players, men and women, do not just saunter onto a court with their bag flung over their shoulder, looking for a match, they must earn that right to play in the biggest tournaments. The players work incredibly hard to reach this stage.  They spend years training and they not only cost them large chunks of their lives and time with their families, but it also costs a great deal of money to employ all of the people to help them fulfill a dream.  Men and women alike should accept this – and let the matter drop and let their racquets do the talking. In their different ways, they're usually very good at it.  Equal pay is fair and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Thanks to ScoobsChris and Kelly (@mikomonstrJail) for their views on this.  I added some of my views as well
What?!?!?! roflmao
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drchef
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 11:55 AM »
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Its simple; ladies, If you want the same pay, then play best of 5 in Slams and no one can argue with you and nor should they. Until then, it's the men who are on the blunt end of positive discrimination.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 12:03 PM »
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Putting aside the quality of the tennis which can be debated either way - the women have the same expenses to cover as the men.  Airlines and hotels don't charge less if you are a woman than a man so it costs the female players just as much to attend these tournaments as the men - why shouldn't they be paid the same?

Why should male models get paid sometimes a 20th of what the women get?
Its not sexism, its the markets, which is how it should be.
If it was down to the markets, which normally decide pay based on economic value.
Women wouldn't even get half as much as the men.
But still rather than give anyone less they should be trying to get a bigger share of the pie for everyone particularly lower ranked players just as they do in golf, NFL etc.
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Alis
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 12:11 PM »
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Is there concrete evidence that the attendance at joint tournaments is lower for women's matches than men's?  By your reckoning tcbm - the attendance at women's matches should be half that of the men's or less.  I would think that highly unlikely.

I can't comment on male models as I know nothing about it but if they are indeed paid very much less than the women for the same job, then it is grossly unfair.
[ Last edit by Alis June 28, 2012, 12:15 PM ] IP Logged
theycanbillme
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 12:12 PM »
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Is there concrete evidence that the attendance at joint tournaments is lower for women's matches than men's?  By your reckoning tcbm - the attendance at women's matches should be half that of the men's or less.  I would think that highly unlikely.

I'm obviously talking about TV audiences, that are roughly half, not on court attendance.
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backhandslice
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 12:35 PM »
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I didn't say most of this   go see the two people at the bottom of my post if you want answers.  just thought it was a interesting subject to discuss.  dont get mad with me  lol.  I don't agree that Caros match was better.  I don't agree with Simon though. 
[ Last edit by johnkiernan35 June 28, 2012, 12:46 PM ] IP Logged
theycanbillme
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 12:45 PM »
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Is there concrete evidence that the attendance at joint tournaments is lower for women's matches than men's?  By your reckoning tcbm - the attendance at women's matches should be half that of the men's or less.  I would think that highly unlikely.

I can't comment on male models as I know nothing about it but if they are indeed paid very much less than the women for the same job, then it is grossly unfair.

Youre missing my point Alis.
Female football players get paid probably a thousandth of what male players get. And Messi gets paid 1000 times more than some semi professional player in the 2nd division.  Is that "grossly unfair"
Of course not. The only reason they get the money is because of the revenue they bring in. Not sexism.
Their market value is reflected in their fees.  And if they were worth less they'd get less, and that is fair.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme June 28, 2012, 12:50 PM ] IP Logged
TheMadHatter
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 12:55 PM »
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I didn't say most of this   go see the two people at the bottom of my post if you want answers.  just thought it was a interesting subject to discuss.  dont get mad with me  lol.  I don't agree that Caros match was better.  I don't agree with Simon though. 
Haha no worries mate, I just was questioning the point. How can anyone call Wozniacki's match more entertaining than Andy's! Slog, slog, slog, error. Slog, slog, slog, winner.
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Re: Gilles Simon says women should be paid less than men « Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 01:00 PM »
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Simon is right that the women should get less money. In my opinion, it's not about the amount of tennis that they play it's about the quality and the entertainment level. Let's be honest, women tennis brings in much less money then men's tennis. It's simple, let the atp and wta conclude their sponsor contracts and other "income" ways seperate and pay their athletes from what they earn. Now, the women get payed, partly, from the money that they male colleagues earn.
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