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Tsonga wins Doha

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Emma Jean
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #30 on: January 10, 2012, 02:39 AM »
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He is a very gritty player but he has the type of game that an attacking player should be able to hit him off the court, Roger has beaten him 11 times out of 11 and I do not feel like beating Ferrer has ever tired him out for the next match.

Nadal also has an excellent lead over Ferrer (13-4) and he's not your out and out attacking player but that was never my the point.
Federer and Ferrer have never once met in a Grand Slam. These matches are all outside GS just like Andy leads Federer 8-4 outside GS. A significant lead over the supposed GOAT and so much for an attacking player. Every player tends to raise their level in a Grand Slam and since Federer has never played Ferrer in a GS, we would not know until it happens, how far he would have pushed Federer had they met.

Also, Andy tends to get more and more nervous especially nowadays and unable to play his best at a later stage because of it (ask yourself why and how Federer blew those match points against Nole at the US Open not once but twice - especially having won so many Slams before, this shouldn’t have been a problem for a guy like his caliber but he still blew those points. you will probably get a clue). A mentally healthy and confident Murray would dismiss Ferrer in no time. Every time they met on hard courts, it was mostly a straight set affair with the exception of WTF just last year, but Andy was injured in that match.

You don't understand the rule and the nature of the game. Your best strategy is to throw in some numbers because that's all you’ve got to go with it. If the same Federer had the same game but with no results, then not in a millions years a fan like you would have liked his game let alone worship him. Understand that.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #31 on: January 10, 2012, 05:04 AM »
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I can see the reply now, Federer didn't want to win those matches Whistle
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #32 on: January 10, 2012, 08:33 AM »
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Nadal also has an excellent lead over Ferrer (13-4) and he's not your out and out attacking player but that was never my the point.
Federer and Ferrer have never once met in a Grand Slam. These matches are all outside GS just like Andy leads Federer 8-4 outside GS. A significant lead over the supposed GOAT and so much for an attacking player. Every player tends to raise their level in a Grand Slam and since Federer has never played Ferrer in a GS, we would not know until it happens, how far he would have pushed Federer had they met.

Also, Andy tends to get more and more nervous especially nowadays and unable to play his best at a later stage because of it (ask yourself why and how Federer blew those match points against Nole at the US Open not once but twice - especially having won so many Slams before, this shouldn’t have been a problem for a guy like his caliber but he still blew those points. you will probably get a clue). A mentally healthy and confident Murray would dismiss Ferrer in no time. Every time they met on hard courts, it was mostly a straight set affair with the exception of WTF just last year, but Andy was injured in that match.

You don't understand the rule and the nature of the game. Your best strategy is to throw in some numbers because that's all you’ve got to go with it. If the same Federer had the same game but with no results, then not in a millions years a fan like you would have liked his game let alone worship him. Understand that.


I agree that Roger and Ferrer have not met in a slam but they have played in some huge matches like the WTF finals in 2007, Roger has lost to some lower ranked guys outside the majors the last few years when motivation may not be 100% but outside Wimbledon he's only lost to Novak and Rafa in majors with the exception of the French last year. Ferrer is ranked where he is because despite not winning any majors or masters he gets very solid results throughout the year they are critical for him, so motivation for him outside the majors would never be an issue like at times it has been for Roger.

Agree if Murray is playing well and should be able to beat Ferrer handily if he's playing well you look at how he played Ferrer in Asia compared to the Aussie open and he was way more attacking in the fall in Asia. Now if you are saying thisnwas because he is nervous as it was the back end of a slam then it is a fair point but then surely Ferrer isn't the issue and it is a nerves issue for Murray  no matter who he plays.

If you watched the last two us open semis with Roger you would see on both Novak pretty much closed his eyes amd started swinging from the hip with his forehands and they came off when you are confident that can happen that wasn't Roger getting nervous it was a guy with no fear thinking he'd lost hitting and hoping.

I have supported Roger since Basel 1998 because I love how he plays so 0 slams, 5 or 16 it wouldn't have mattered to me. Understand that.

Growing up I was a fan of Micheal Chang, although I did admire Sampras a lot and preferred him to Agassi.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 12:11 AM »
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So you are saying, a player like Nole who was probably having the most succcessful season in the open era, just chose to close his eys and decided to swing his forehands from the hip and that's how he got away with all those match points against him? Okay, if that's comfort you.

And I guess then, Nadal also got away with all those Slam titles against Federer just by playing into Federer's weak backhand. One trick pony that he is, isn't he?

Cleary Federer is mentally more confident than Nadal.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 12:37 AM »
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So you are saying, a player like Nole who was probably having the most succcessful season in the open era, just chose to close his eys and decided to swing his forehands from the hip and that's how he got away with all those match points against him? Okay, if that's comfort you.

And I guess then, Nadal also got away with all those Slam titles against Federer just by playing into Federer's weak backhand. One trick pony that he is, isn't he?

Cleary Federer is mentally more confident than Nadal.

DJokovic himself admitted he was lucky he went for an amazing forehand it came off! Fortune favours the brave so hats off to him for that. He had a great year last year and that is why even match point down he had the confidence to play such a high risk shot.

But a lot of experts felt it showed he had given up cracked it almost thinking he was out of the match as seemed to be the case down 5-3 40-15 but he managed to turn it around in the end.

Nadal is a great champion not a one trick pony by any means but his left forehand (it is one of the best forehand in the game, most lefty forehand Roger can handle but Nadal has the skill to put it up high on Roger's backhand) that's always going to be a tough match up for Roger on clay or any other slow surface anywhere else though and I feel like the match is on Roger's racket.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 12:46 AM »
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DJokovic himself admitted he was lucky he went for an amazing forehand it came off! Fortune favours the brave so hats off to him for that. He had a great year last year and that is why even match point down he had the confidence to play such a high risk shot.

But a lot of experts felt it showed he had given up cracked it almost thinking he was out of the match as seemed to be the case down 5-3 40-15 but he managed to turn it around in the end.

Nadal is a great champion not a one trick pony by any means but his left forehand (it is one of the best forehand in the game, most lefty forehand Roger can handle but Nadal has the skill to put it up high on Roger's backhand) that's always going to be a tough match up for Roger on clay or any other slow surface anywhere else though and I feel like the match is on Roger's racket.

Novak isn't arrogant like Federer; he's being modest there. In fact, most athletes will contribute their achievements to luck. They are also the most superstitious people as it happens. They wouldn't want to tempt their fate. Luck favours those who choose to try. Luck wouldn't favour a player like Nalbandian, you see.

Nothing is on Federer's racket unless you have the result to support it. Would, should, could doesn't happen in real life. What you have in hand is what you are left with.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 12:46 AM »
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Novak himself said after last years us open semi "If they come in they come in, it is a risk, I was gambling, if you miss it then you have to exit and you've lost,I was lucky today".

That comes over to me as an admission that he was just pretty much playing Russian roulette from match points down! Fortunately for him it came off!
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 12:48 AM »
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Novak himself said after last years us open semi "If they come in they come in, it is a risk, I was gambling, if you miss it then you have to exit and you've lost,I was lucky today".

That comes over to me as an admission that he was just pretty much playing Russian roulette from match points down! Fortunately for him it came off!

He employed a very risky strategy and it paid off but it is still a strategy and part of the plan. Part of the game.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 12:49 AM »
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Novak isn't arrogant like Federer; he's being modest there. In fact, most athletes will contribute their achievements to luck. They are also the most superstitious people as it happens. They wouldn't want to tempt their fate. Luck favours those who choose to try. Luck wouldn't favour a player like Nalbandian, you see.

Nothing is on Federer's racket unless you have the result to support it. Would, should, could doesn't happen in real life. What you have in hand is what you are left with.


DJokovic shot was high risk brave yes courageous yes but lucky absolutely even Nadal said so and he's got no reason to say otherwise.

Very true Roger got his 16 by you know the best and dominating as I say RAfas a tough player but Roger on a fast court has too much game for him we that at the O2. 
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #39 on: January 12, 2012, 12:51 AM »
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He employed a very risky strategy and it paid off but it is still a strategy and part of the plan. Part of the game.

The way he played to get back from two sets to love down was strategy! No way in the world is that shot strategy, that is mentally checking out swinging and kind of hoping it goes your way!

As I say I do credit his bravery! Although if he had mentally checked out it wouldn't have actually needed much bravery as he would have resigned himself to defeat anyway!
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #40 on: January 12, 2012, 12:56 AM »
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The way he played to get back from two sets to love down was strategy! No way in the world is that shot strategy, that is mentally checking out swinging and kind of hoping it goes your way!

As I say I do credit his bravery! Although if he had mentally checked out it wouldn't have actually needed much bravery as he would have resigned himself to defeat anyway!


When you say Novak got away with that shot simply based on luck, a luck that only a few people could have pulled, perhaps only Nadal then you are giving him anything but credit. At the same time, I am fully convinced, had it happened the other way, then it would have been regarded as a sheer stroke of genius on Federer's part and we wouldn't have heard the end of it.

I get it.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #41 on: January 12, 2012, 01:05 AM »
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When you say Novak got away with that shot simply based on luck, a luck that only a few people could have pulled, perhaps only Nadal then you are giving him anything but credit. At the same time, I am fully convinced, had it happened the other way, then it would have been regarded as a sheer stroke of genius on Federer's part and we wouldn't have heard the end of it.

I get it.

Not at all when Roger made that backhand pass v Nadal Wimbledon final 2008 ok he still lost but it sent the match into 5 sets stopped it being a routine 4 set win for Rafa.

I said even then great and brave a shot as it was it was lucky but it was do or die but had Rafa gone to the open court Roger's forehand he was stuffed he was at rafts mercy I was ready to accept that it has to work both ways.
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Re: Tsonga wins Doha « Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 01:15 AM »
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Not at all when Roger made that backhand pass v Nadal Wimbledon final 2008 ok he still lost but it sent the match into 5 sets stopped it being a routine 4 set win for Rafa.

I said even then great and brave a shot as it was it was lucky but it was do or die but had Rafa gone to the open court Roger's forehand he was stuffed he was at rafts mercy I was ready to accept that it has to work both ways.

You simply cannot compare the two situations. Many hidden elements, different conditions, different scenarios, different backgrounds to name a few. At the end of the day, Nole was mentally the tougher one which led him to take the 'brave' decision that paid off.

You are a Fed fanatic so you will say anything to save the boat in order to make Federer look less vulnerable. I don't like Federer but I can still put my feelings aside and judge the situation in a more neutral way.

Therefore, we are going to agree to disagree.
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