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MurraysWorld
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Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « on: June 03, 2008, 10:15:41 PM »
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An article from The Times has compared the achievements of Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray and asks whether last year British optimists were delusional in thinking Murray would be in the race to contend with the likes of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.

Were we simply being patriotically hopeful or was it a case of true delusion? Now it’s almost embarrassing to recall that little more than a year ago we British optimists were truly sincere when we wondered who would win the race to join Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal in tennis’s very top echelon; Novak Djokovic or Andy Murray?
Why does he manage to keep things afloat when Murray repeatedly has to endure disappointments and subsequent criticism. Because he takes heed of advice from an extremely select band of confidantes, works diligently at his game and does not allow himself to get sidetracked into anger and disputes.
Most certainly neither young lion would have dreamt of releasing an autobiography entitled Hitting Back. They have far too much hitting forward to do in months and years to come and like most sensible players, maintain any life history is currently way too premature.
[ Last edit by Mark June 04, 2008, 12:28:04 AM ] Logged
Mark
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #1 on: June 03, 2008, 10:16:55 PM »
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The identity of fuzzyballs is revealed...
[ Last edit by Mark June 03, 2008, 10:25:34 PM ] Logged
netcord
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 10:51:42 PM »
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Fatman....Barry Fatman Rolling Eyes he's been on Andy's case forever. Comparing Andy to Nole at this stage is a bit like saying 'he's written an autobiography too early'
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Mark
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 10:54:39 PM »
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What do you mean? Are you saying he is slow?
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Clydey
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 11:47:36 PM »
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What do you mean? Are you saying he is slow?


I think he is oversimplifying things.  Nole earned his spot and is obviously the better player, but you cannot underestimate how his seeding has helped him.  Yes, he deserves his seeding but you only have to look at the draws Federer gets to see how much of a joke getting to the latter stages of a GS can be.

Seriously, look at Fed's draw.  It is pathetic, yet he will be hailed once he inevitably reaches the final.  Who has he beaten to get there?  It actually irritates me how easy his path is.  It's as though the French want to dethrone Rafa by throwing tough matches his way and throwing tomato cans Fed's way.

Once Andy nails down a top 8 spot, expect results to improve dramatically, particularly on hard and grass.  It's also easy to underestimate the effects of Andy's injury.  He has only now started playing attacking tennis again.  We'll see how he does in the back end of the season and then we can judge.
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Mark
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 11:50:34 PM »
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He has only now started playing attacking tennis again.

Think
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Clydey
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 11:58:04 PM »
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Think


Nadal, Volandri, Roddick.  It was only after his injury that he played way behind the baseline exclusively.
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Sir Panda
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 11:59:06 PM »
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He played attacking tennis at San Jose as well, and all through the US hardcourt season of 2006.
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Yamor
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 12:01:20 AM »
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Clydey, I can't speak about individual draws, but normally Fed has to do far better at the end of tourneys then Andy ever has to, to maintain his ranking and number 1 seeding. You make out that its far easier for Djoko to do so well because of his easier draws - but remember he has to do far better at the end of tourneys to keep ahead. Seeding does not skew the rankings at all except when a player has suddenly lost form - then it'll take a little longer to fall down the rankings then it would without seedings - arguably that's the case with Fed right now.
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Clydey
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 12:09:55 AM »
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Clydey, I can't speak about individual draws, but normally Fed has to do far better at the end of tourneys then Andy ever has to, to maintain his ranking and number 1 seeding. You make out that its far easier for Djoko to do so well because of his easier draws - but remember he has to do far better at the end of tourneys to keep ahead. Seeding does not skew the rankings at all except when a player has suddenly lost form - then it'll take a little longer to fall down the rankings then it would without seedings - arguably that's the case with Fed right now.


No, they can lose and maintain their seeding for a long time.  Fed has done f**k all this year.  He has reached the final and semi-finals of a few tournaments because of his seeding and he is still number 1 without winning anything.

If Djokovic keeps getting to the semis, he will maintain his ranking.  Fed is GUARANTEED points for a FO final.  Do you know how many points that is?  The only match it's even remotely possible he'll lose is against Djokovic or Nadal in the final.

Are the rankings wrong?  of course not.  He point I'm making is that you cannot compare how Murray and Djokovic do in tournaments unless you compare draws.  Murray had a nightmare draw and Djokovic doesn't.  You can't compare their achievements at individual tournaments until Andy at least gets seeded for the quarters (which he will).
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Mark
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #10 on: June 04, 2008, 12:13:17 AM »
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But Clydey, regardless of how easy you think Nole has had it... he would still have this much of a gap between Murray because he is soooo much of a better player right now due to consistency. Hopefully that will change.
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Yamor
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 12:15:07 AM »
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Noone is comparing individual tourneys. We're comparing what players have achieved, and Djoko is far better. And anyway, he also played better then Andy this tourney. Besides for that, Fed does deserve his ranking and seeding because rank is not short term, but a full year, and he is still holder of two slams, plus winner of the EOY tourney. That is why he is still no. 1.
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Clydey
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #12 on: June 04, 2008, 12:16:36 AM »
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But Clydey, regardless of how easy you think Nole has had it... he would still have this much of a gap between Murray because he is soooo much of a better player right now due to consistency. Hopefully that will change.


Oh, I know he is a better player.  The point I'm making is that it is that much harder for Andy to catch up until he nails down his place in the top 8.  That way he'll get a good seeding and will be matched with the top 4 in the quarters.
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Mark
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 12:18:23 AM »
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Oh, I know he is a better player.  The point I'm making is that it is that much harder for Andy to catch up until he nails down his place in the top 8.  That way he'll get a good seeding and will be matched with the top 4 in the quarters.

I find that a pretty pointless argument, it's up to him to nail that top-8 place and if he hasn't done it by now then it's completely his own fault.
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Clydey
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Re: Djokovic is putting Murray in the shade « Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 12:18:49 AM »
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Noone is comparing individual tourneys. We're comparing what players have achieved, and Djoko is far better. And anyway, he also played better then Andy this tourney. Besides for that, Fed does deserve his ranking and seeding because rank is not short term, but a full year, and he is still holder of two slams, plus winner of the EOY tourney. That is why he is still no. 1.


Christ, Yamor, read what I'm saying.  Yes, Djokovic is better but the seeding makes it harder for Andy to catch up.  The injury set Andy way back, not only in terms of his ranking but his form.  Once he is top 8, we will get a better idea of where Andy's game is at, particularly as he is playing attacking tennis now and will get matched with the top 4 in the quarters of tournaments.
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